Fuge/Sump Ques.: Flow from Return line or overflow
- Thread starter tboone
- Start date
cboyfan2020
Active Member
through sump and tee'd off return line to fuge. I have mine setup like that. here is a rough sketch.
reefnut
Active Member
You will not want the main flow going through the Refug. The current in the refug needs to be much slower than the current in a typical sump. As cboy stated, it is typical to run a feed line off of the return pump to feed the refug. Is your refug and sump in the same tank/ container?
tboone
New Member
Thanks for the help.
Reefnut, the fuge will be seperate from the sump.
Okay, I'll plan to T- off the return line and add a ball valve between the T and the fuge to regulate flow. I have a 55G tank, 20G sump (roughly 15G effective), Amiracle overflow, and am running a Mag 7 on the return. Will the Mag7 be enough after T'ing flow off to the fuge?
Tim
Reefnut, the fuge will be seperate from the sump.
Okay, I'll plan to T- off the return line and add a ball valve between the T and the fuge to regulate flow. I have a 55G tank, 20G sump (roughly 15G effective), Amiracle overflow, and am running a Mag 7 on the return. Will the Mag7 be enough after T'ing flow off to the fuge?
Tim
hip68
Member
Just out of curiousity, why could you not tee off the line going down to the sump from the tank. Im thining of doing this when i setup my refugium. Then take the overflow from the refugium and dropping it to the sump with the return pump. The water from the refugium would bypass the skimmer entirely. Ive heard this is theway to do it as you dont want your pods being sucked into the skimmer. I have a dual outlet HOB box and was going to run one line straight to the refugium with a ball valve to get the flow right.
reefnut
Active Member
Originally posted by KrUnK
Tbone make sure you put a ball valve on the tee going too the fuge. and also a ball valve before the tee, and after the tee(just too be sure.)
I don't see why three valves are needed. Can you explain?
Originally posted by hip68
Just out of curiousity, why could you not tee off the line going down to the sump from the tank.
I tried this and it didn't work for me because I couldn't control the flow into the refug without backing up the tank. I'm not saying that it can't work though.
TBoone, I was worred about taking to much flow away from the tank also. My refug (10g) is feed by a small power head that I placed in the sump.
hip68
Member
I was under the impression that you wanted unskimmed water to the fuge to provide the nutrients that the pods need. With all the things the skimmer pulls out of the water, wouldnt the pods basically starve unless you somehow suppliment it?
Thats why i wanted to run one of my overflow drains right to the fuge with the other going down to the sump and skimmer.
Thats why i wanted to run one of my overflow drains right to the fuge with the other going down to the sump and skimmer.
foxthorn
Member
hip68... Yes, some believe it better to have the fuge fed by water coming directly from the tank. Then again there seems to be a lot of people out there feeding it from the return pump. I'd love to hear more opinions.
When I posted this design originally Bang Guy had some great comments on it.... Here they are as reference (Thanks again Guy!)
"I have a few minor suggestions. I believe it will work great as designed but...
1 - I would split the line coming from the tank to create the input to the fuge. That way all of the water going into the fuge comes directly from the tank. The problem with your setup is that the refugium critters will not get any detritus from the tank. The way you have it some of the water leaving the fuge is just pumped back into the fuge. And, the circulation in the display tank is reduced directly by the water diverted to the refuge.
Add a ball valve after the split to the refugium on the leg going to the skimmer. All of the water will want to fall straight down. The valve will allow you to force some of the water all the way over to the refugium.
2 - I would put the input to the fuge against the glass in the corner closest to the overflow out of the fuge and put an elbow and the bottom of it. I would have the elbow placed almost at sand level and pointing along the glass on the long side. This will create a circular current and allow the sandbed infauna to capture detritus coming from the tank and remove it for you.
3 - I would have 1/2" - 1" of live sand at the bottom of the Refugium.
Guy"
When I posted this design originally Bang Guy had some great comments on it.... Here they are as reference (Thanks again Guy!)
"I have a few minor suggestions. I believe it will work great as designed but...
1 - I would split the line coming from the tank to create the input to the fuge. That way all of the water going into the fuge comes directly from the tank. The problem with your setup is that the refugium critters will not get any detritus from the tank. The way you have it some of the water leaving the fuge is just pumped back into the fuge. And, the circulation in the display tank is reduced directly by the water diverted to the refuge.
Add a ball valve after the split to the refugium on the leg going to the skimmer. All of the water will want to fall straight down. The valve will allow you to force some of the water all the way over to the refugium.
2 - I would put the input to the fuge against the glass in the corner closest to the overflow out of the fuge and put an elbow and the bottom of it. I would have the elbow placed almost at sand level and pointing along the glass on the long side. This will create a circular current and allow the sandbed infauna to capture detritus coming from the tank and remove it for you.
3 - I would have 1/2" - 1" of live sand at the bottom of the Refugium.
Guy"
cboyfan2020
Active Member
interesting....so do you think this would be better or could I add some flakes and such to the fuge supplying pods with food? I also have 2 1" drain lines from overflow.
cboyfan2020
Active Member
ok...can I feed the pods and stuff with a little flake food which will decay which will become detritus and such and keep the original design or go with the second design two posts before this one?
reefnut
Active Member
Originally posted by foxthorn
Add a ball valve after the split to the refugium on the leg going to the skimmer. All of the water will want to fall straight down. The valve will allow you to force some of the water all the way over to the refugium.
This was were I had my problems. I have one 1" return line and when I put in the ball valve after the split to the refugium on the leg going to the skimmer to force some of the water all the way over to the refugium it restricted the return flow so the pump out ran the overflow causing the tank to backup and overflow. I could have cut the flow back going back to the main tank but then I would have lost some gph. I would be interest to hear how others have overcome this.
krux
Member
you overcome this by using a 1 1/2" ball valves on a 1" lines. from your overflow, which in effect adds zero back pressure to your return pump, allowing you to use the correct pump for your calculated water flow without having to sbtract for fittings, as well as water lost to the refuge on the return. less of a crap shoot when trying to mathc pump to overflow.
secondly you add a tee on your return with a ball valve that dumps back into your sump. if there is too much water moving to your tank for the overflow to handle (not a problem unless you buy more pump than your overflow is rated, say for future plumbing and what not) you open the ball valve and let some of the water pass through the second line and back into the sump. you lose effectiveness of your pump this way, but do not add unnecessary back pressure to it to try to slow it down. this second line also works great for water changes if you hook a hose onto it.
see broomer's diagrams for more detailed information on the return line to sump plumbing, as well as teeing off of the return with a large pump. he is a supersize kind of guy i think.
hip68, you are right on in your thinking btw as far as i am concerned. after 6 months fo research i settled on that design in february and have since seen 4 or 5 friends change their systems to match mine because they were not getting the export (growth) and numbers i was able to achieve. not to mention the greater circulation through the tank (10-25% loss when teeing off of return line, depending on how much you fuge once toy account for added head pressure).
this has been covered in a similar thread last week if you do a search for sump/fuge plans
HTH
secondly you add a tee on your return with a ball valve that dumps back into your sump. if there is too much water moving to your tank for the overflow to handle (not a problem unless you buy more pump than your overflow is rated, say for future plumbing and what not) you open the ball valve and let some of the water pass through the second line and back into the sump. you lose effectiveness of your pump this way, but do not add unnecessary back pressure to it to try to slow it down. this second line also works great for water changes if you hook a hose onto it.
see broomer's diagrams for more detailed information on the return line to sump plumbing, as well as teeing off of the return with a large pump. he is a supersize kind of guy i think.
hip68, you are right on in your thinking btw as far as i am concerned. after 6 months fo research i settled on that design in february and have since seen 4 or 5 friends change their systems to match mine because they were not getting the export (growth) and numbers i was able to achieve. not to mention the greater circulation through the tank (10-25% loss when teeing off of return line, depending on how much you fuge once toy account for added head pressure).
this has been covered in a similar thread last week if you do a search for sump/fuge plans
HTH
reefnut
Active Member
krux, I pulled up the tread from last week. Your design is nice 
. As for using the oversized ball valves? There has to be some backpressure on the line coming from the overflow to push the water to the refug. This small flow restriction is what was causing mine to backup and overflow.
This is what I currently have.
. As for using the oversized ball valves? There has to be some backpressure on the line coming from the overflow to push the water to the refug. This small flow restriction is what was causing mine to backup and overflow. This is what I currently have.
foxthorn
Member
The last picture that cboyfan2020 posted shows having some water diverted away from the skimmer right to the refugium and from there back to the main tank.
Is there really that big of a problem sending skimmed water to the refuge? The end result is that the fuge is just a second 'filter' in line after the skimmer. Would there really be not enough 'food' for the refugium after skimming?????
Wouldn't you be better off skimming as much water as possible? Someone help me understand this please
Is there really that big of a problem sending skimmed water to the refuge? The end result is that the fuge is just a second 'filter' in line after the skimmer. Would there really be not enough 'food' for the refugium after skimming?????
Wouldn't you be better off skimming as much water as possible? Someone help me understand this please