Garlic is no good?

[dinogeorge]

In post after post I have read that products like “Garlic Extreme” and other kinds of extract supposedley have no medicinal value and are “only flavoring”. But the ingredients of these products show that that are 99% garlic juice.
How can that be any less valuable than crushing your own garlic and using that juice? 1% difference cannot possibly have any impact on its value. So is there something I am missing or not understanding about pre- packaged garlic extract? What is the justification or science behind the idea that “store” bought extract is less of a product than freshly crushed?
Thanks!

 

[1journeyman]

Fresh garlic has a particular compund that is thought to have medicinal value. It just doesn't last long in a "bottle".

 

[al mc]

Dino...Allicin is a substance that is released when you cut/crush fresh garlc. It is reported to have antibiotic and antifungal properties in mammals. Allicin
is not long lived. Thus, it is felt that freshly diced/crushed garlic may have medicinal value while dried/stored/bottled
garlic juice does not, or has significantly less value.
Garlic has been credited for the prevention/reversal of heart disease/cancers,etc. in mammals. NIH studies do not support this concept to my knowledge.
In the swf hobby it has been speculated that it stimulates appetite and helps the immune system. Again, to my knowledge, this has not been scientifically proven. However, through antecdotal use it does not appear to harm our
sw friends so it is widely used.
Sorry you asked? I use it, but have no idea if it helps.

 

[dinogeorge]

This is really great info....both of you! Thanks.

 

[al mc]

Not sure if it causes the fish to have 'garlic' breathe like it does for me when I eat it......

 

[dinogeorge]

That's why I always feed a tic tac to each fsh after every meal....

 

[t316]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
Dino...Allicin is a substance that is released when you cut/crush fresh garlc. It is reported to have antibiotic and antifungal properties in mammals. Allicin
is not long lived. Thus, it is felt that freshly diced/crushed garlic may have medicinal value while dried/stored/bottled
garlic juice does not, or has significantly less value.
Garlic has been credited for the prevention/reversal of heart disease/cancers,etc. in mammals. NIH studies do not support this concept to my knowledge.
In the swf hobby it has been speculated that it stimulates appetite and helps the immune system. Again, to my knowledge, this has not been scientifically proven. However, through antecdotal use it does not appear to harm our
sw friends so it is widely used.
Sorry you asked? I use it, but have no idea if it helps.

I was following another thread as well about making your own food, and besides the obvious raw seafoods, garlic was part of the recommendation. However, the advice was to "freeze" your concoction. I'm sure the Allicin loses all of it's medicinal value then as well.

 

[al mc]

Yes, freezing will help 'preserve' your home made food in a safe state to feed to your fish weeks down the line but the Allicin will be of little value IMHO.

 

[kornele23]

I have been feeding my fish fresh garlic with their food. It is making my water cloudy. Why is this?? And it this necessarily bad? It's also giving the tank a nice garlic scent lol. I've followed the instructions on how to preprare the garlic - but I've gotta say that not MUCH juice is created and alot of the "chuncks" of garlic get into the food and tank. I try to syphon out the remaining chuncks of garlic when they are through eating, but the water still remains a little cloudy.

 

[beth]

Bottled garlic is bottled nothing.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/127007/faqs-fish-diseases-treatments-quarantine-health-info#post_1509974

 

[jonthefishguy]

Obviously additives such as garlix Xtreme and the like are not completely useless or else most that use it would not have successful outcomes. Just as there is not enough evidence to prove that it does work, there isnt enough evidence that it doesnt. If we took a poll and found out how many have used it and had success mabye not everytime but have has some success, we would find that there are more that would say that it in fact does work. Although there is a chemical that is released and loses its potency over time in a bottle, that doesnt mean it doesnt work. It may be not as effective but surely it isnt NOTHING.

 

[al mc]

The only value garlic seems to have for 'everyone' in the SWF hobby is as an appetite stimulant.
This is of great value to prevent/treat sick/diseased fish because it keeps them taking in the nutrition that is needed.
Beyond that..who knows......I do use it, but I do not feel that it actually treats diseases, like Ich, as many claim.

 

[beth]

Bottled garlic does not work for ich. And, you're right, there is only anecdotal evidence that it works at all.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
The only value garlic seems to have for 'everyone' in the SWF hobby is as an appetite stimulant.
This is of great value to prevent/treat sick/diseased fish because it keeps them taking in the nutrition that is needed.
Beyond that..who knows......I do use it, but I do not feel that it actually treats diseases, like Ich, as many claim.
Fresh garlic boosts the fish's immune system. That is why many claim that it "cures" ich. They see the fish healthy for a month and assume that all parasites are gone. As we know, that is not the case. Garlic does entice them to eat.

 

[al mc]

Sep...Very debateable about whether it actually boosts the immune system directly. Indirectly it may help our fish friends fight off infections/infestations by acting as an appetite stimulant, thus providing the body with the nutrition it needs to keep it's immune system strong and the energy required to repair cellular damage.
I do use it as I feel it does little, if any, harm and may do some good.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
Sep...Very debateable about whether it actually boosts the immune system directly. Indirectly it may help our fish friends fight off infections/infestations by acting as an appetite stimulant, thus providing the body with the nutrition it needs to keep it's immune system strong and the energy required to repair cellular damage.
I do use it as I feel it does little, if any, harm and may do some good.
It is new and is debatable yes, but there is plenty of information and research done on the possitive effects of garlic. Check out Steven Pro and Bob Fenners sites. Do a search. You will find out plenty of possitive feedback for garlic in a fish's diet

 

[al mc]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
It is new and is debatable yes, but there is plenty of information and research done on the possitive effects of garlic. Check out Steven Pro and Bob Fenners sites. Do a search. You will find out plenty of possitive feedback for garlic in a fish's diet

This anecdotal evidence. I do believe it has benefits and I do use it based on the suggestions of people I trust locally and on swf.com (including you). It is good adjunct therapy in the treatment and prevention of problems with our swf friends from my personal experience. I just do not believe based on the research that you noted and other searches I have done that there is scientific proof that there is much benefit to it unless it is freshly squeezed garlic 'juice' other than as a possible appetite stimulant.
There are many herbal/holistic/'non traditional' therapies that appear to work and probably do. Some have been researched and withstood scientific peer reviewed studies, some have not. I use several therapies on my own pets (dogs/cats/fish/horses) because I think they work and think they do no harm but have no science to back up those beliefs. I just believe if I suggest that one of my clients use them on their own pets that I make sure I indicate what the risks and benefits are in my opinion and in scientific studies about them, when those studies are available.
When I did my first posting to this thread it was to answer the question about the science/research behind the difference between bottled garlic extracts and fresh garlic. There appears to be a huge difference between
bottled garlic extracts and fresh (less than 24 hour) garlic juice because of the rapid breakdown of Allicin, the generally accepted bioactive ingredient.

 

[beth]

It does boost the immune system, but it also reportedly has medicinal qualities, in addition to the immune boost. My info post in the FAQ Thread explains that, and it is also written up on more extensively elsewhere.
I think there is merit to use fresh garlic for ich treatment, as well as some other treatments such as infection, malnutrition, however, it is homeopathic and it is not going to be as effective as hyposalinity or copper treatment for ich.

 

[al mc]

Beth..Not questioning your post. I would like to read the peer reviewed studies on the immune boosting ability of garlic in SWF. Is it truely boosting the immune system..better T or B cell function..or just improving caloric intake which secondarily may help? Please direct me to the site/articles.
Thanks Al

 

[dinogeorge]

So what if fresh garlic juice were added directly into the tank? Would it have any effect on ich, or the fish and inverts in the tank? My thoughts would be that it would dilute so much that it would have little to no effect, but I’m just asking in case someone knows the answer.
Hmm????