Gave Puffer Tank Maracyn -Bad Reaction!

scubadoo

Active Member
I've not tried and therefore cannot dismiss it as ineffective. Here is how it supposed to work....
How does it work?
Macrophages are a type of white blood cells that are found in most tissues and organs of the body. They play a central role in the defense of all multi-cellular animals against invading pathogens. Beta glucan is strongly stimulatory to macrophages (Seljelid et al., 1984). These white bloods cells, in turn, set in motion a cascade of other immune system activities. Macrophages circulate the body in search of foreign invaders (antigens).When they find a foreign invader they then engulf them through a process known as phagocytosis. They degrade the invader into peptides that are used to communicate the presence of foreign bodies to B-cells and T-Cells in the immune system. These cells are a part of the acquired immune system that learns to adapt and defend the body against specific threats. Simplified, acquired immunity is how the body becomes more resistant or immune to some pathogens after exposure.
Non-specific defense mechanisms of the immune system are vitally important in protecting fish (Secombs and Fletcher, 1992). Beta 1, 3 D glucan is a non-specific immune system stimulant, meaning that it activates the immune system to respond in a general way rather than against a specific type of pathogen or invader. This makes it a valuable tool against bacterial, viral, fungal and even parasitic pathogens, but it is not limited to these.
Beta glucan works as a biological defense modifier. It activates the immune system by stimulating receptors on macrophages that cause them to react as if a fungus is attacking the body. Biochemical studies have identified this receptor on fish macrophages and netrophils (Engstad and Robertsen 1993; Ainsworth 1994; Engstad and Robertsen 1994). Administering beta glucan begins a chain reaction of events which heighten cellular immune response. It stimulates the production of white blood cells such as macrophages, neutrophils and monocytes that combat invading pathogens. Cellular mobilization is increased helping immune system cells to recognize antigens and move to where they are needed most. The immune system's capacity to engulf non-self cells is augmented and the productions of anti-microbial agents are increased.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
All I can say is that there is no study to back any of that up. And the author, whose knowledge I generally have a good deal of respect for, is the only one who believes this [that I know of].
 

diane4

Member
The lfs said that puffers and lion fish have been known to not handle the stress as well for hypo compared to other fish. Any they said the SG should be at 1.012 or lower.
With all the difference of opinion, it is very frustrating and scary to know what is right.
I suppose that there really is no 1 single right opinion or method because every fish and their envirionment varies - just like a doctor may perscribe different treatments for the same condition for different patience, for example dosage varries depending on weight or age. It would only make sense that the same type of this exists or should exist because all fish are different.
My buddy was offered some live ghost shrimp last night, I think the shrimp scared him. He turned dark and opened his mouth wide, then hid. It is hard to get him to eat.
I love that fish, so much. so very much.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
diane, the LFS is WRONG. What is the status of your fish at this point?
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
All I can say is that there is no study to back any of that up. And the author, whose knowledge I generally have a good deal of respect for, is the only one who believes this [that I know of].
Some of the wetwebmedia folks also recommend the usage of beta glucan and I beleive you can find it in some of the prepared fish foods on the market...not certain of this regarding the prepared foods. I cannot link to their FAQ's regarding disease and the use of this due to the rules. Again, I have not used it and therefore cannot dismiss it and I certainly do not recommend it as an answer .... ..only as an option worth exploring. My understanding is that it does not harm fish.
There are studies out there..but few on marine fish. Only references to it working on fish based on studies but no study "quoted"....and numerous info regarding studies on other animals, humans, etc. and the benfits/results.
I prefer to keep an open mind regarding alternatives. I too have much respect for that author...and therefore much attach some weight to his opinion. This does not make his view correct...but it also means it should not be easily dismissed.
JMO
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Well, I'll check over to Bob's site to see what he says. I have a good deal of respect for Robert Fernner.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
Well, I'll check over to Bob's site to see what he says. I have a good deal of respect for Robert Fernner.
Leslie and Anthony suggest it...they also link to the article. Not sure if Bob does...but as you know...several folks work with him on that site.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I didn't see it over there but I did see it as a very insignificant listing in a fish food pellet. Their search engine isn't very good.
Its just my opinion. Grain protein is not going to make fish healthy. LOL
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
I didn't see it over there but I did see it as a very insignificant listing in a fish food pellet. There search engine isn't very good.
Its just my opinion. Grain protein is not going to make fish healthy. LOL

Cut and paste....don't think they have an article but it does appear in the FAQ's as a possible protocol treatment and supplement...
<Please do keep a close eye on these fish injuries for any signs of infection. You may need to medicate them. It would be a good idea to boost their immune system as well as keeping their tank very clean. I would recommend doing some extra water changes until the injuries have healed. In terms of boosting their immune system the addition of an immunostimulant like Beta Glucan and some vitamins like Vita-Chem Marine would be beneficial. Here is some info on how the Beta Glucan works and how to administer it…..
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/beta_glucan_biological_defense_modulator.html>
Am I correct in assuming that the Sailfin Tang could be randomly bullying the others? <Yes, I would tend to agree.>
I am tempted to remove him since the strange behavior seemed to
have started around the same time that I added him.
<I think that is a good plan. The tank is really too small for a Tang >
When I asked my LFS if he would be OK in a 60G aquarium they said he would be OK but after reading some of your FAQ's I am not so sure. Any help that you could give would be greatly appreciated; I think I want to remove him in the next few hours! Chris.
<I think you have made a good decision Chris. You might want to consider an algae eating blenny like a Lawnmower Blenny to help with your algae problem. Suspicions confirmed :)! HTH, Leslie>
 

rarend

New Member
Beth, -PH 8.2 all other numbers are perfect.
Our little guy appears to be much better now with the slightly increased salinity... SG at 1.012. What I plan to do is watch Ipo closely. He exhibited more stress at the lower SG level of 1.010. We decided to make the adjustment accordingly, and we now have seen an inprovement in his behavior. As long as he tolerates this current level we will keep him there for another two weeks or so.
There appears to be a great deal of disagreement over the hyposalinity process -even among folks who have spent many years in the hobby. What is common though is that it is so far the best way to treat saltwater ick.
I want to thank everybody here for their input. Last weekend was very trying for Diane and I.
-Rick
 
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