GFCI Keeps Tripping

[snwboarder]

Doesn't happen everyday, but sometimes when my timer clicks off either my actnics or mh, my gfci will trip. This is getting to be a big problem, and I can't figure out what's going wrong. I'm running 2 different timers, both Coralife digital, one timer for actnics with moonlights alternately, and other is timing my mh's. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks in advance

 

[mcsd22]

The GFI is really sensitive and you will probably continue to have problems. Shut the breaker off and replace it with a standard recepticle.

 

[bojik]

Originally Posted by mcsd22
The GFI is really sensitive and you will probably continue to have problems. Shut the breaker off and replace it with a standard recepticle.
And buy a plug in GFCI (instead of wall outlet ones. they are too sensitive to current etc...)

 

[snwboarder]

Thanks for the reply, it's not a GFI recepticle, it's the inline type that you plug in. It's my understanding that using a gfci is very necessary...but maybe I could run the timers without one, and run all pumps/phs/heaters on a seperate line with a gfci....any other opinions?

 

[bojik]

You might have more current draw than the unit is rated for. Someitmes initial equip turn on/off current draw spikes can be enough to trip them. (some of them, i've had that issue with outlet type ones) Try running a GFCI for lights and another for pumps.

Do you have a grounding probe with that unit? (quite nescesarry i hear) Secondly got a surgeprotector ? That might also help with the spikes. (if that is the problem) Just some ideas not sure how well they will work.

 

[snwboarder]

Thanks for the response bojik; i'm not sure what my gfci is rated for, but right now I have the lights (2x250w mhs and 2x110w actnics), fans, 3 majijet 900's and 250w heater running on the gfci that keeps tripping; my return pump and skimmer are both running through another gfci. I have everything running through a ups first (battery backup made for computers), which has built in surge protection. I do have grounding probes hooked up, 1 in display, 1 in fuge, and another in sump. I'll have to look into the current ratings of the problem gfci, maybe that's the problem....

 

[snwboarder]

oh yea, i just remembered, most of the time the gfci trips, it's when the actnics turn off (so the mh's are already off), so i'm thinking that the current isn't too much, but I don't know. It has happened when the mh's turn off as well...but the majority of the time it's when the actnics turn off;

 

[scsinet]

This is a quirk of GFIs that doesn't happen very often but can happen. It's most frequently seen when running UPSs off a GFI outlet.
Don't listen to anyone who tells you to remove the GFI. They are necessary with saltwater tanks, for your protection and your livestock's protection. Every saltwater tank should have a GFI with a grounding probe, but a GFI (with no probe) at the absolute minimum. If something fails in that water and you stick your hand in while you are touching something else that's grounded, you will get a "hot to ground" electric shock which is one of the most deadly shocks you can get from residential power. GFIs are specifically designed to protect against this occurrence.
What is happening in your case is that the ballast in your lighting system causes an inductive kick in relationship to ground when the timer cycles off. The GFI is detecting that kickback as a ground-fault current and is tripping. It's all technical electrical stuff that isn't really important to know, but there are a couple of ways around it.
First, try placing a dedicated surge protector in between the plug to the lighting system and the timer. A big power strip isn't necessary, simple single plug units are available for 5 dollars or so from Lowes or Home Depot. See attached photo. These devices will tend to absorb the high voltage kick that occurs. This may or may not work.
Second, you can try moving the timer to the other side of the GFI, and placing a GFI after the timer. In other words, plug the timer directly into the wall outlet, place another plug in GFI unit after the timer, and plug the lights into that. By moving the timer, you place the kickback in a differnet part of the circuit that might keep the GFI from tripping. This also may or may not work.
As a last resort, it may be necessary to run the lighting system and timer without the GFI. I personally recommend that ALL equipment run off of it, but since your lighting system does not come into direct contact with the water, it's not as big of a deal to leave it off the GFI. However, this should be a last resort and you should leave all the equipment that is in contact with water (pumps, powerheads, heaters, etc) on the GFI.

 

[cgrant]

listen to scsinet, no-one should be telling you to remove the gfci outlet!

 

[snwboarder]

Thanks for the info scsinet, definately sounds like you know your stuff. Right now I do have a surge protector after the timer that controls my mh's (to give more timed outlets) but not one for the actnics. I'll try relocating my gfci to the other side of my timers, and if that doesn't do it than i'll just run the lights w/o one...but as a last resort. I'll try to keep anyone else reading this post and having the same probs updated, but it's hard to tell since the gfci doesn't trip everytime. Thanks again everyone!

 

[snwboarder]

hey scsinet, one more question for you; if i were to place my gfci directly after the wall outlet, prior to my ups, would that even give me the protection...or would the ups just kick on it's power if the gfci tripped and put me and my inhabitants at risk? just curious, to give myself another option to try...and this way would be much easier to change around wiring. thanks in advance

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by snwboarder
...or would the ups just kick on it's power if the gfci tripped and put me and my inhabitants at risk?
This is exactly what would happen. The UPS needs to come before the GFI.

 

[snwboarder]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
This is exactly what would happen. The UPS needs to come before the GFI.
makes sense, thanks scsinet

 

[bojik]

Try putting a small inline surge protector between the timer and gfci for the actinics. Fairl cheap and if it don't work your only out a few bucks (or return it ).

 

[snwboarder]

thanks for the reply bojik, i might try that, only thing is that the gfci has tripped when the mh's go off too (not near as many times), but they are running on a surge protector after the timer...so i dunno; i'm goin outta town (roommates keepin an eye on the gfci while i'm gone), but when i get back I think i'll try gfci after the timers instead of before them, and see how that works. seems like the best solution so far, and i greatly appreciate everyones input

 

[snwboarder]

disreguard that last response, and thanks again for the input bojik...it's late...brain not workin as well as it should..lol; i have my surge protector running after the timer, and you were saying to run one before the timer and after the gfci; that's definately a very good option at this point...i'll have to try that out once i get back. i'll try to keep the thread updated once i get back...from my searches...must not happen often...but i'm sure someone else has/will have this problem...thanks again guys!

 

[snwboarder]

updated progress....i placed a surge protector between my timers and the gfci, and seems to remedy the trippin problem; although it's only been about 5 days without problems...the gfci had tripped 2 times in the 3 days just prior to putting the surge protector in. ok...now a whole new problem...and almost definately the reason my gfci was trippin the the first place...my actnics are just going off at random times. if i unplug the ballast...wait a few minutes..and plug it back in...they come right on...no problem; is my ballast bad? i've only had it for about 4 months now...it was part of a retro kit..the ballast is ARO Electronic VHO Ballast; Any ideas?

 

[bojik]

Originally Posted by snwboarder
updated progress....i placed a surge protector between my timers and the gfci, and seems to remedy the trippin problem; although it's only been about 5 days without problems...the gfci had tripped 2 times in the 3 days just prior to putting the surge protector in. ok...now a whole new problem...and almost definately the reason my gfci was trippin the the first place...my actnics are just going off at random times. if i unplug the ballast...wait a few minutes..and plug it back in...they come right on...no problem; is my ballast bad? i've only had it for about 4 months now...it was part of a retro kit..the ballast is ARO Electronic VHO Ballast; Any ideas?
Could be a quick on ballast.

 

[snwboarder]

thanks for the reply bojik...i'm new to all this stuff...what's a quick on ballast? :notsure:

 

[scsinet]

This confused me as well, but I think he means quick connects on the ballast... some have them some don't. It could also be the bulbs.
Sounds like a trial and error situation to me.