Gfci ?
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gwh57
Member
Yes, there is a big difference. A surge protector only protects for a what it called a "voltage surge protector". It provides some protection against "extra or high voltage surges running through the electric lines. It has nothing to do with a GFIC. They will offer protection against water related incidents.
scsinet
Active Member
If you are planning a tank in which the inhabitants constitute a substantial investment, you may consider running two GFIs and dividing your equipment up between them, so if one trips it doesn't shut your whole tank down. Having that happen can be very bad when it happens when you are at work, etc.
Most submerged equipment will fail and leak water inside after enough time. This time is usually very long... years and years and years, but the odds are that if you are in the hobby for a long time with an elaborate system, you'll experience it sooner or later, so building some protections in like the two GFI thing above is often worth it.
Most submerged equipment will fail and leak water inside after enough time. This time is usually very long... years and years and years, but the odds are that if you are in the hobby for a long time with an elaborate system, you'll experience it sooner or later, so building some protections in like the two GFI thing above is often worth it.
gwh57
Member
I also use two dedicated GFI circuits for my tank. Half my stuff is on one and the rest on the second. Mine has only tripped off one time when it was first put in. I have a UPS on each circuit and the pumps and powerheads are run through them. IMO a GFCI should be on the top of the shopping list.
scsinet
Active Member
Absolutely agree. A ground fault in a tank of saltwater would be disatrous if the aquarist is grounded somewhere else and reaches in....
Another recommendation I always have for people when using a GFI is to use a grounding probe. If a GFI is employed and there is no ground path, it won't trip since it won't detect a fault current. A grounding probe will assist the GFI in doing it's job...
On the other hand a grounding probe should NEVER be used on a tank NOT protected by a GFI, in that case it can cause serious harm to the livestock.
Another recommendation I always have for people when using a GFI is to use a grounding probe. If a GFI is employed and there is no ground path, it won't trip since it won't detect a fault current. A grounding probe will assist the GFI in doing it's job...
On the other hand a grounding probe should NEVER be used on a tank NOT protected by a GFI, in that case it can cause serious harm to the livestock.
gwh57
Member
Originally Posted by maelv
Okay.....not an electrician, but I am fairly handy...so let me ask the question....a GFI, is it just a matter of switching the current outlet and placing a GFI outlet in, or is there additional wiring that I would have to do behind the scenes?
Yes, that is the short answer just switching and no additional wiring in most cases. I am not sure that I would do that if you are unsure. Please be sure you know what you are doing.
Okay.....not an electrician, but I am fairly handy...so let me ask the question....a GFI, is it just a matter of switching the current outlet and placing a GFI outlet in, or is there additional wiring that I would have to do behind the scenes?
Yes, that is the short answer just switching and no additional wiring in most cases. I am not sure that I would do that if you are unsure. Please be sure you know what you are doing.
reign1977
New Member
Let me give a little insight to how important your power is when setting up a new aquarium. The GFI receptacle is a must! I also highly recommend having a separate breaker (the black thing in your fuse box) just for your GFI receptacles. The reason for the separate breaker is because of the amount of juice all of your supplies will be pulling. Most breakers are rated at 15 or 20 amps. EX: Lights and thermometer- 4 Amps, Filters-10 Amps, Power heads-3 amps. Do the math and you have 17 amps pulling on a 20 amp breaker. Now if you have anything else on that breaker you’re going to have "trips" all the time- which could result in DEAD FISH.
Now the purpose of the GFI breaker is to kill the power is anything, and I mean anything that conducts electricity gets wet. Now if you didn’t have this wonderful GFI breaker in your wall, and for some reason you reach your hand in the tank- to feed or clean- and then BAM!!!! That brand new power head had a pin size hole in the wire and the 125 gallons of water just became 10,000 volts of electricity- which you never noticed because the fish didn’t really seem to be bothered by it.
Now back to your question- use the power strip to plug in your electrical devices- then plug your power strip into the GFI breaker that you had the electrician install. Don't become a number! Be smart!
Now the purpose of the GFI breaker is to kill the power is anything, and I mean anything that conducts electricity gets wet. Now if you didn’t have this wonderful GFI breaker in your wall, and for some reason you reach your hand in the tank- to feed or clean- and then BAM!!!! That brand new power head had a pin size hole in the wire and the 125 gallons of water just became 10,000 volts of electricity- which you never noticed because the fish didn’t really seem to be bothered by it.
Now back to your question- use the power strip to plug in your electrical devices- then plug your power strip into the GFI breaker that you had the electrician install. Don't become a number! Be smart!
fbm
Active Member
Originally Posted by Reign1977
Let me give a little insight to how important your power is when setting up a new aquarium. The GFI receptacle is a must! I also highly recommend having a separate breaker (the black thing in your fuse box) just for your GFI receptacles. The reason for the separate breaker is because of the amount of juice all of your supplies will be pulling. Most breakers are rated at 15 or 20 amps. EX: Lights and thermometer- 4 Amps, Filters-10 Amps, Power heads-3 amps. Do the math and you have 17 amps pulling on a 20 amp breaker. Now if you have anything else on that breaker you’re going to have "trips" all the time- which could result in DEAD FISH.
Now the purpose of the GFI breaker is to kill the power is anything, and I mean anything that conducts electricity gets wet. Now if you didn’t have this wonderful GFI breaker in your wall, and for some reason you reach your hand in the tank- to feed or clean- and then BAM!!!! That brand new power head had a pin size hole in the wire and the 125 gallons of water just became 10,000 volts of electricity- which you never noticed because the fish didn’t really seem to be bothered by it.
Now back to your question- use the power strip to plug in your electrical devices- then plug your power strip into the GFI breaker that you had the electrician install. Don't become a number! Be smart!
Lets not get carried away here. Water does not transform 120 volt into 10000 volts.
Also I did have stray voltage in my tank and my top dollar GFCI did not trip, and I did stick my hands in there and most of the time nothing will happen. It is that one time in a million that you have to worry about. A GFCI imo is not enough you must still have the grounding probe hook as well. I forget how much current difference it takes to trip a gfci but it is micro amps but you can still have a small enough leak to have stray voltage and not trip the gfci. But if you have a grounding probe then you have a return back to the gfci so anything will cause it to trip.
Also I have a 72 gallon setup with a coralife 220 skimmer, 2 250w heaters, 3800gph of flow, 432 watts of lighting and I have never seen my current over 6 amps. As measured by a Kil-a-watt meter. Most of the time I down around 4 amps.
Let me give a little insight to how important your power is when setting up a new aquarium. The GFI receptacle is a must! I also highly recommend having a separate breaker (the black thing in your fuse box) just for your GFI receptacles. The reason for the separate breaker is because of the amount of juice all of your supplies will be pulling. Most breakers are rated at 15 or 20 amps. EX: Lights and thermometer- 4 Amps, Filters-10 Amps, Power heads-3 amps. Do the math and you have 17 amps pulling on a 20 amp breaker. Now if you have anything else on that breaker you’re going to have "trips" all the time- which could result in DEAD FISH.
Now the purpose of the GFI breaker is to kill the power is anything, and I mean anything that conducts electricity gets wet. Now if you didn’t have this wonderful GFI breaker in your wall, and for some reason you reach your hand in the tank- to feed or clean- and then BAM!!!! That brand new power head had a pin size hole in the wire and the 125 gallons of water just became 10,000 volts of electricity- which you never noticed because the fish didn’t really seem to be bothered by it.
Now back to your question- use the power strip to plug in your electrical devices- then plug your power strip into the GFI breaker that you had the electrician install. Don't become a number! Be smart!
Lets not get carried away here. Water does not transform 120 volt into 10000 volts.
Also I did have stray voltage in my tank and my top dollar GFCI did not trip, and I did stick my hands in there and most of the time nothing will happen. It is that one time in a million that you have to worry about. A GFCI imo is not enough you must still have the grounding probe hook as well. I forget how much current difference it takes to trip a gfci but it is micro amps but you can still have a small enough leak to have stray voltage and not trip the gfci. But if you have a grounding probe then you have a return back to the gfci so anything will cause it to trip.
Also I have a 72 gallon setup with a coralife 220 skimmer, 2 250w heaters, 3800gph of flow, 432 watts of lighting and I have never seen my current over 6 amps. As measured by a Kil-a-watt meter. Most of the time I down around 4 amps.
reign1977
New Member
Originally Posted by fbm
Lets not get carried away here. Water does not transform 120 volt into 10000 volts.
Also I did have stray voltage in my tank and my top dollar GFCI did not trip, and I did stick my hands in there and most of the time nothing will happen. It is that one time in a million that you have to worry about. A GFCI imo is not enough you must still have the grounding probe hook as well. I forget how much current difference it takes to trip a gfci but it is micro amps but you can still have a small enough leak to have stray voltage and not trip the gfci. But if you have a grounding probe then you have a return back to the gfci so anything will cause it to trip.
Also I have a 72 gallon setup with a coralife 220 skimmer, 2 250w heaters, 3800gph of flow, 432 watts of lighting and I have never seen my current over 6 amps. As measured by a Kil-a-watt meter. Most of the time I down around 4 amps.
Just advice from an electrician-- don't listen to me
Lets not get carried away here. Water does not transform 120 volt into 10000 volts.
Also I did have stray voltage in my tank and my top dollar GFCI did not trip, and I did stick my hands in there and most of the time nothing will happen. It is that one time in a million that you have to worry about. A GFCI imo is not enough you must still have the grounding probe hook as well. I forget how much current difference it takes to trip a gfci but it is micro amps but you can still have a small enough leak to have stray voltage and not trip the gfci. But if you have a grounding probe then you have a return back to the gfci so anything will cause it to trip.
Also I have a 72 gallon setup with a coralife 220 skimmer, 2 250w heaters, 3800gph of flow, 432 watts of lighting and I have never seen my current over 6 amps. As measured by a Kil-a-watt meter. Most of the time I down around 4 amps.
Just advice from an electrician-- don't listen to me
maelv
Active Member
Thank you all for the information....I know an electrician....my wife's friend's husband....it's just trying to get him out to my house...lol...I do want to throw another set of outlets in that room, and put it on another circuit....just don't want to pay an arm and a leg to do so....this hobby is already expensive enough.
Which is why I was asking if the outlets could be swapped out...
Well thank you guys very much...definitely informational
Which is why I was asking if the outlets could be swapped out...
Well thank you guys very much...definitely informational
bojik
Member
Originally Posted by maelv
Okay.....not an electrician, but I am fairly handy...so let me ask the question....a GFI, is it just a matter of switching the current outlet and placing a GFI outlet in, or is there additional wiring that I would have to do behind the scenes?
IMO a plug into an outlet GFCI is much less touchy and more reliable than the crappy in the wall outlet kind. And most of the in wall ones I've seen do not handle a lot of current. AND you don't need an electrician.
Okay.....not an electrician, but I am fairly handy...so let me ask the question....a GFI, is it just a matter of switching the current outlet and placing a GFI outlet in, or is there additional wiring that I would have to do behind the scenes?
IMO a plug into an outlet GFCI is much less touchy and more reliable than the crappy in the wall outlet kind. And most of the in wall ones I've seen do not handle a lot of current. AND you don't need an electrician.
fbm
Active Member
Originally Posted by Reign1977
Just advice from an electrician-- don't listen to me
I as well am a electrician so could you please explain how water turns 120volts into 10000volts. This I would love to know because I think we could make alot of money of this. We, as an industry, could save billions in copper winding costs and just fill transformers with water.
Just advice from an electrician-- don't listen to me
I as well am a electrician so could you please explain how water turns 120volts into 10000volts. This I would love to know because I think we could make alot of money of this. We, as an industry, could save billions in copper winding costs and just fill transformers with water.
gwh57
Member
Originally Posted by Reign1977
Just advice from an electrician-- don't listen to me
Yea, I have to question that. If you actually check the amps on all the equipment you listed I think you will see that you are way off. I have checked mine with am amp meter and I know what mine draw. I did that before I ran my two new circuits. What kind of filter draws "10 amps"? :notsure:
Just advice from an electrician-- don't listen to me
Yea, I have to question that. If you actually check the amps on all the equipment you listed I think you will see that you are way off. I have checked mine with am amp meter and I know what mine draw. I did that before I ran my two new circuits. What kind of filter draws "10 amps"? :notsure:
f14peter
Member
Originally Posted by maelv
Thank you all for the information....I know an electrician....my wife's friend's husband....it's just trying to get him out to my house...lol...I do want to throw another set of outlets in that room, and put it on another circuit....just don't want to pay an arm and a leg to do so....this hobby is already expensive enough.
Which is why I was asking if the outlets could be swapped out...
Well thank you guys very much...definitely informational
One thing to consider (and it sounds like you're already on it) is that typically all outlets in a given room are on the same circuit. That means that everything in that room plugged into any outlet is pulling on the same circuit. Throw in maybe a TV, stereo, lamps, the occasional vacuum cleaner and then you're talking a serious load on one circuit. The few exceptions I've seen is in large rooms that span from front-to-back of the house . . . then the outlets might be on two circuits.
Since our abode is a 40-year old tract house (Hardly a shining example of quality home construction!), we bit the bullet and had an electrician come in and run a new grounded circuit from the breaker box to a quad-outlet at the tank location and that's all that's on it. If I used the existing double outlet, the tank system would have been on the same circuit as our large HDTV, surround-sound stereo, and DVD player.
I then used SHOCK BUSTER GFI cords for the tank's power needs. I like these because they have a quad-box on the end of a 6-foot (I think, maybe 8-foot) cord. The boxes which I mounted in the tank stand have their own on/off switch (Very handy) and the GFI unit is built into the plug.
I also payed a lot of attention to what was plugged in where. One cord handles the return pump, a PH, and one heater . . . the other handles another PH, the skimmer pump, and the other heater. I divvied them up in this manner so that if one GFI trips, I'll at least have some heating and circulation, plus the cabling is a bit neater as the boxes serve equipment on the end of the tank where they're located. The lights run on their own SHOCK BUSTER cord.
If I were to do anything different, I probably would have had the guy put two double outlets spaced apart (Instead of one quad), just to make the cabling neater.
Thank you all for the information....I know an electrician....my wife's friend's husband....it's just trying to get him out to my house...lol...I do want to throw another set of outlets in that room, and put it on another circuit....just don't want to pay an arm and a leg to do so....this hobby is already expensive enough.
Which is why I was asking if the outlets could be swapped out...
Well thank you guys very much...definitely informational
One thing to consider (and it sounds like you're already on it) is that typically all outlets in a given room are on the same circuit. That means that everything in that room plugged into any outlet is pulling on the same circuit. Throw in maybe a TV, stereo, lamps, the occasional vacuum cleaner and then you're talking a serious load on one circuit. The few exceptions I've seen is in large rooms that span from front-to-back of the house . . . then the outlets might be on two circuits.
Since our abode is a 40-year old tract house (Hardly a shining example of quality home construction!), we bit the bullet and had an electrician come in and run a new grounded circuit from the breaker box to a quad-outlet at the tank location and that's all that's on it. If I used the existing double outlet, the tank system would have been on the same circuit as our large HDTV, surround-sound stereo, and DVD player.
I then used SHOCK BUSTER GFI cords for the tank's power needs. I like these because they have a quad-box on the end of a 6-foot (I think, maybe 8-foot) cord. The boxes which I mounted in the tank stand have their own on/off switch (Very handy) and the GFI unit is built into the plug.
I also payed a lot of attention to what was plugged in where. One cord handles the return pump, a PH, and one heater . . . the other handles another PH, the skimmer pump, and the other heater. I divvied them up in this manner so that if one GFI trips, I'll at least have some heating and circulation, plus the cabling is a bit neater as the boxes serve equipment on the end of the tank where they're located. The lights run on their own SHOCK BUSTER cord.
If I were to do anything different, I probably would have had the guy put two double outlets spaced apart (Instead of one quad), just to make the cabling neater.