Go with magnetic or Electronic Ballast?
- Thread starter hot883
- Start date
agent707
Member
Hmmm, interesting. I can't argue against personal experience. I don't know alot about "reef" lighting to comment on PAR and wave form and their effectiveness...
My only experience with halides is with DIY projectors, which is all about Lumens.
And... was simply answering the original question of
I have heard that Electronic ballst are better energy consumption wise. Any ideas?
But taken into consideration, energy consumption isn't the key factor in whether to choose electronic over magnetic?
It'd probably be nice if you could compile a list of Pro's and Con's on both (In simplistic terms please) for readers. 'cause like someone said, this information is sought after quite a bit it seems.
Pro's
[hr]
• Uses less energy
• Less heat
• Bulb replacement less frequently (debatable?)
Con's
[hr]
• effective PAR
• wave form
..etc. .etc.
Something like that? :help:
Of course I'd like to know all ends myself as I'm going to "one day" have halide powered a reef tank.
This is a good thread.
My only experience with halides is with DIY projectors, which is all about Lumens.
And... was simply answering the original question of
I have heard that Electronic ballst are better energy consumption wise. Any ideas?
But taken into consideration, energy consumption isn't the key factor in whether to choose electronic over magnetic?
It'd probably be nice if you could compile a list of Pro's and Con's on both (In simplistic terms please) for readers. 'cause like someone said, this information is sought after quite a bit it seems.
Pro's
[hr]
• Uses less energy
• Less heat
• Bulb replacement less frequently (debatable?)
Con's
[hr]
• effective PAR
• wave form
..etc. .etc.
Something like that? :help:
Of course I'd like to know all ends myself as I'm going to "one day" have halide powered a reef tank.
This is a good thread.
squidd
Active Member
It's going to be hard to explain in simplistic terms...but basicly...you are not using resistance to heat an element to create light in a MH bulb...You are using electric wave "pulses" to excite molecules of gas in the bulb...at certain frequencies...they emit "usable" radiation...The cleaner the wave form is the more a certain frequency can be established...
Electronics produce a "similar" but not as effective wave form as magnetics...
SANJAY JOSHI PhD has done numerous tests (presented on other sites) comparing different ballasts to same bulb...and different bulbs to same ballast and the resultant PAR outputs...and differences...
Some combos are just more "effective" than others...and in the bigger picture (your tank) the results can outweigh the additional "running costs"....
On the other hand..some brands of bulbs DO respond better on certain electronic ballasts than they do on Magnetics....
There is a bit more involved here than picking "One from column A" and "One from column B"...
Yes, some people did not like the analogies used but...
Well then your gonna love this...
Look at some of the great guitar players out there...quite a few prefer to use solid bodied units with magnetic pickups and..."Tube Amps"...
Why..same reason...electronics can not "match" (close but not exactly) the tonal quality (frequency stabilization) produced by the "old style" equipment and interactive wave form...
Your ears can hear the difference...and your corals will feel, grow and respond to the difference...
Electronics produce a "similar" but not as effective wave form as magnetics...
SANJAY JOSHI PhD has done numerous tests (presented on other sites) comparing different ballasts to same bulb...and different bulbs to same ballast and the resultant PAR outputs...and differences...
Some combos are just more "effective" than others...and in the bigger picture (your tank) the results can outweigh the additional "running costs"....
On the other hand..some brands of bulbs DO respond better on certain electronic ballasts than they do on Magnetics....
There is a bit more involved here than picking "One from column A" and "One from column B"...
Yes, some people did not like the analogies used but...
Well then your gonna love this...
Look at some of the great guitar players out there...quite a few prefer to use solid bodied units with magnetic pickups and..."Tube Amps"...
Why..same reason...electronics can not "match" (close but not exactly) the tonal quality (frequency stabilization) produced by the "old style" equipment and interactive wave form...
Your ears can hear the difference...and your corals will feel, grow and respond to the difference...
pyro
Active Member
Hey, I use PC lights on my tank... but I enjoyed the thread anyways. I'm a nerd and really like threads like this.
Do you think somebody could possibly do a good write up/summary for the archives? It's one of those topics that is always brushed over - until this thread I always thought it was electronic no question asked.
Thanks!
Do you think somebody could possibly do a good write up/summary for the archives? It's one of those topics that is always brushed over - until this thread I always thought it was electronic no question asked.
Thanks!
hot883
Active Member
Originally Posted by Pyro
Hey, I use PC lights on my tank... but I enjoyed the thread anyways. I'm a nerd and really like threads like this.
Do you think somebody could possibly do a good write up/summary for the archives? It's one of those topics that is always brushed over - until this thread I always thought it was electronic no question asked.
Thanks!
I have PC's on my 125 gallon. I have 2-48" 260w total of 520w and tank looks awesome. I am researching metal halides and if I do decide to buy I am thinking about dual 250's with dual 110vho's to supliment.
I'm not adapt/smart enough to clean this thread up for archives as you suggested, hopefully that can be done though. Very informative.
Hey, I use PC lights on my tank... but I enjoyed the thread anyways. I'm a nerd and really like threads like this.
Do you think somebody could possibly do a good write up/summary for the archives? It's one of those topics that is always brushed over - until this thread I always thought it was electronic no question asked.
Thanks!
I have PC's on my 125 gallon. I have 2-48" 260w total of 520w and tank looks awesome. I am researching metal halides and if I do decide to buy I am thinking about dual 250's with dual 110vho's to supliment.
I'm not adapt/smart enough to clean this thread up for archives as you suggested, hopefully that can be done though. Very informative.
turningtim
Active Member
squidd, I have looked over the Joshi findings. Unfortunatly I'm not one to really make heads or tails of it and try and explain. Maybe you can answer a question for me though. What numbers are we (hobbyist) looking for? The ppfd (par)? What is the CCT? The more I read the more I find it important to match the correct bulbs with ballast. Is this assumption correct? And as with anything, all mag or electronic ballasts are not created equal?
I find this all very interesting b/c it seems that the standard answer when talking about ballasts is Icecap, why is this?
Thanks
Tim
I find this all very interesting b/c it seems that the standard answer when talking about ballasts is Icecap, why is this?
Thanks
Tim
hurt
Active Member
TEMPERATURE, TEMPERATURE, TEMPERATURE. I am a bit surprised no one has brought up the differences in TEMPERATURE between the two ballasts. I run electronic ballasts(IC) just for that reason. If you don't have a chiller(I don't), and temp is a possible concern, definitely go with electronic. They don't put nearly as much heat into your system as magnetic ballasts do.
turningtim
Active Member
Hurt, meaning the lights run hotter and thus add temp to the water or just the ambient temp of having them around/under the stand?
hot883
Active Member
Originally Posted by Hurt
TEMPERATURE, TEMPERATURE, TEMPERATURE. I am a bit surprised no one has brought up the differences in TEMPERATURE between the two ballasts. I run electronic ballasts(IC) just for that reason. If you don't have a chiller(I don't), and temp is a possible concern, definitely go with electronic. They don't put nearly as much heat into your system as magnetic ballasts do.
Good point that you bring up. Let's expand on this thought as it is a major concern. Thanks
TEMPERATURE, TEMPERATURE, TEMPERATURE. I am a bit surprised no one has brought up the differences in TEMPERATURE between the two ballasts. I run electronic ballasts(IC) just for that reason. If you don't have a chiller(I don't), and temp is a possible concern, definitely go with electronic. They don't put nearly as much heat into your system as magnetic ballasts do.
Good point that you bring up. Let's expand on this thought as it is a major concern. Thanks
zman1
Active Member
I didn't vote. I have both magnetic and electronic ballast. However, they are not apples to apples comparison. I use magnetic ballast for MH and electronic for VHOs.
The magnetic dual case gets very hot and I run a fan over it. Heat off a ballast is an inefficiency. I do like them though.
The electronic ballasts are a IC 660 4 bulb on my 75 Gal and a IC430 2 bulb supplement for the MH on the 120 gal. They run very cool. Not sure if you are looking at fluorescents or MH. I would keep mine the way they currently are. I have had magnetic ballast for the 75 fluorescents and went to electronic, the bulbs last longer and I just have softies in there
The magnetic dual case gets very hot and I run a fan over it. Heat off a ballast is an inefficiency. I do like them though.
The electronic ballasts are a IC 660 4 bulb on my 75 Gal and a IC430 2 bulb supplement for the MH on the 120 gal. They run very cool. Not sure if you are looking at fluorescents or MH. I would keep mine the way they currently are. I have had magnetic ballast for the 75 fluorescents and went to electronic, the bulbs last longer and I just have softies in there
hurt
Active Member
Tim and Hot883,
I believe both factors mentioned affect overall temp. I know BangGuy has stated numerous times that it is only a matter of how much light enters, but I tend to partially disagree. I believe the ambient temp also plays a role in overall system temp.
For instance, these figures were taken from the following link. An IC(electronic) ballast on a 250w MH after 35 minutes with a fan running will give a temp of 76.8. Without fans running the same ballast will give a temp of 85.2. But a PFO standard(magnetic) after 35 minutes with fans will give a temp of 83.2, after 45 minutes without a fan temp increases to 90.1. Now , a PFO HQI ballast after 35 minutes with a fan will give a temp of 87.5, and after 45 minutes without a fan--97.2. So as you can see there is a definite temperature difference between the three ballasts.
To make it easier to see
Type of ballast
[hr]
Temp after 35 min. w/fan
[hr]
Temp after 45 min. w/out fan
IceCap
[hr]
76.8
[hr]
85.2
PFO standard
[hr]
83.2
[hr]
90.1
PFO HQI
[hr]
87.5
[hr]
97.2
Click on: Testing 250 watt MH lamps and Ballasts
Fourth heading down- Lamp heat due to ballasts
http://www.cnidarianreef.com/
I believe both factors mentioned affect overall temp. I know BangGuy has stated numerous times that it is only a matter of how much light enters, but I tend to partially disagree. I believe the ambient temp also plays a role in overall system temp.
For instance, these figures were taken from the following link. An IC(electronic) ballast on a 250w MH after 35 minutes with a fan running will give a temp of 76.8. Without fans running the same ballast will give a temp of 85.2. But a PFO standard(magnetic) after 35 minutes with fans will give a temp of 83.2, after 45 minutes without a fan temp increases to 90.1. Now , a PFO HQI ballast after 35 minutes with a fan will give a temp of 87.5, and after 45 minutes without a fan--97.2. So as you can see there is a definite temperature difference between the three ballasts.
To make it easier to see
Type of ballast
[hr]
Temp after 35 min. w/fan
[hr]
Temp after 45 min. w/out fan
IceCap
[hr]
76.8
[hr]
85.2
PFO standard
[hr]
83.2
[hr]
90.1
PFO HQI
[hr]
87.5
[hr]
97.2
Click on: Testing 250 watt MH lamps and Ballasts
Fourth heading down- Lamp heat due to ballasts
http://www.cnidarianreef.com/