socal57che
Active Member
Hello?
God vs Satan question
- Thread starter peef
- Start date
socal57che
Active Member
Maybe this will help...
"evolutionary changes do occur in time within a given species but the species does not change inherently. For example, the dogs although develop evolutionary changes in time but they still remain fundamentally dogs; they do not evolve into another species."
Elephants may develop longer trunks, but they do not become zebras.
Pigeons may develop different beak configurations, but they do not become chickens.
"evolutionary changes do occur in time within a given species but the species does not change inherently. For example, the dogs although develop evolutionary changes in time but they still remain fundamentally dogs; they do not evolve into another species."
Elephants may develop longer trunks, but they do not become zebras.
Pigeons may develop different beak configurations, but they do not become chickens.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2585648
..He has no gender as he is GOD... "JESUS" was created as a man GOD was never that I know of... He is the Heavenly FATHER. It is not like he is in the form of man as w know it...
Agreed. God is God.
That said, as Jesus refers to Him as "Father" I think it is natural to use the pronoun "He".
http:///forum/post/2585648
..He has no gender as he is GOD... "JESUS" was created as a man GOD was never that I know of... He is the Heavenly FATHER. It is not like he is in the form of man as w know it...
Agreed. God is God.
That said, as Jesus refers to Him as "Father" I think it is natural to use the pronoun "He".
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by ruaround
http:///forum/post/2585982
and i would like to say yes it was once again... the jews were better educated and had for the most part better jobs than the germans... this work ethic it taught to them in the religion... judaism is a religion...
Judaism is a religion, being "Jewish" is a race.
Many Jews do not practice Judaism.
http:///forum/post/2585982
and i would like to say yes it was once again... the jews were better educated and had for the most part better jobs than the germans... this work ethic it taught to them in the religion... judaism is a religion...
Judaism is a religion, being "Jewish" is a race.
Many Jews do not practice Judaism.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by peef
http:///forum/post/2586087
So when the life started on the planet and everything was just micro organisms and bacteria what man, dinosaurs, the dang duck billed platypus just uh "Popped" up? Come on thats freaken ludicris. It is very slow going but ummm yes species do evolve and there is TONS of documented proof to back it up. Take any highschool level science class and you will find it.
Peef, if you can provide the examples you claim to have knowledge of write a paper, submit it to a peer reviewed journal, and buckle up; You're quickly going to become very famous....
I actually took several science classes in HS. In fact, I majored in Biology in College....
http:///forum/post/2586087
So when the life started on the planet and everything was just micro organisms and bacteria what man, dinosaurs, the dang duck billed platypus just uh "Popped" up? Come on thats freaken ludicris. It is very slow going but ummm yes species do evolve and there is TONS of documented proof to back it up. Take any highschool level science class and you will find it.
Peef, if you can provide the examples you claim to have knowledge of write a paper, submit it to a peer reviewed journal, and buckle up; You're quickly going to become very famous....
I actually took several science classes in HS. In fact, I majored in Biology in College....
1journeyman
Active Member
We discussed the elephant example earlier. That is a classic example of Adaptation. A species (elephant) population is changing (tusk size) due to outside pressures favoring a particular trait.
Like I said earlier, that's genetics, not Evolution. Smaller tusked males are being left to breed and to pass along their genes.
Like I said earlier, that's genetics, not Evolution. Smaller tusked males are being left to breed and to pass along their genes.
peef
Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2586118
Maybe this will help...
"evolutionary changes do occur in time within a given species but the species does not change inherently. For example, the dogs although develop evolutionary changes in time but they still remain fundamentally dogs; they do not evolve into another species."
Elephants may develop longer trunks, but they do not become zebras.
Pigeons may develop different beak configurations, but they do not become chickens.
Ok I am going to go as simple and mainstream as I can....
Velocorapter...sp? They are proven to have developed wings and to have shrunk 10 fold and to have developed feathers....soooooo they evolved into a type of bird.....dinosaur into a bird......TOTALLY different species.
http:///forum/post/2586118
Maybe this will help...
"evolutionary changes do occur in time within a given species but the species does not change inherently. For example, the dogs although develop evolutionary changes in time but they still remain fundamentally dogs; they do not evolve into another species."
Elephants may develop longer trunks, but they do not become zebras.
Pigeons may develop different beak configurations, but they do not become chickens.
Ok I am going to go as simple and mainstream as I can....
Velocorapter...sp? They are proven to have developed wings and to have shrunk 10 fold and to have developed feathers....soooooo they evolved into a type of bird.....dinosaur into a bird......TOTALLY different species.
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by peef
http:///forum/post/2586263
Ok I am going to go as simple and mainstream as I can....
Velocorapter...sp? They are proven to have developed wings and to have shrunk 10 fold and to have developed feathers....soooooo they evolved into a type of bird.....dinosaur into a bird......TOTALLY different species.
How are you saying this proves it was not a separate species to begin with. Who witnessed this occurance?
Links please.
http:///forum/post/2586263
Ok I am going to go as simple and mainstream as I can....
Velocorapter...sp? They are proven to have developed wings and to have shrunk 10 fold and to have developed feathers....soooooo they evolved into a type of bird.....dinosaur into a bird......TOTALLY different species.
How are you saying this proves it was not a separate species to begin with. Who witnessed this occurance?
Links please.
the egregious
Member
Not to change the subject ( I don't really know what the subject is now because I only read page 1. ) but I remember when I was growing up and I would be with my grandmother in Kassel ( Deutschland) {Yes I am German} ) She would ask me. "Kann Gott einen stein so schwer, er kann es nicht aufheben?"
Which I guess roughly translates into. "can God create a stone so heavy, he cannot lift it"
I did not really know what she meant by that when she would ask me but, later on down the road I finally understood and, it kinda makes you think.
Just some food for thought.
Which I guess roughly translates into. "can God create a stone so heavy, he cannot lift it"
I did not really know what she meant by that when she would ask me but, later on down the road I finally understood and, it kinda makes you think.
Just some food for thought.
geridoc
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2586082
Research evolution a little more and you will find that there are different levels of evolution. Adaptation by a species, definitely occurs. Evolution of one species into another species, never seen. Not one single time...ever.
Except for a new mosquito species in the London underground system, except for the appearance of many new drosophila species when housed in lab conditions, except for... o, I don't need more since those two examples make your statement of "not one single time" true - it has happened in plain view many times, not one single time, and continues to occur.
http:///forum/post/2586082
Research evolution a little more and you will find that there are different levels of evolution. Adaptation by a species, definitely occurs. Evolution of one species into another species, never seen. Not one single time...ever.
Except for a new mosquito species in the London underground system, except for the appearance of many new drosophila species when housed in lab conditions, except for... o, I don't need more since those two examples make your statement of "not one single time" true - it has happened in plain view many times, not one single time, and continues to occur.
geridoc
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2586095
Please name one species on earth that is a result of evolving from a different species. I will settle for just one.
What did the "microorganisms and bacteria" evolve from, inanimate dirt particals?
Please dust off your high school life science book and give me JUST ONE example.
Homo sapiens, for one.
http:///forum/post/2586095
Please name one species on earth that is a result of evolving from a different species. I will settle for just one.
What did the "microorganisms and bacteria" evolve from, inanimate dirt particals?
Please dust off your high school life science book and give me JUST ONE example.
Homo sapiens, for one.
peef
Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2586287
How are you saying this proves it was not a separate species to begin with. Who witnessed this occurance?
Links please.
Of course it wasn't witnessed.....who "witnessed" the dinosaurs in exsistance....uh nobody......but we do know that they were here....!
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2586505
Except for a new mosquito species in the London underground system, except for the appearance of many new drosophila species when housed in lab conditions, except for... o, I don't need more since those two examples make your statement of "not one single time" true - it has happened in plain view many times, not one single time, and continues to occur.
Bam....
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2586509
Homo sapiens, for one.
And wham!
ps...I am not trying to be rude I promise!
http:///forum/post/2586287
How are you saying this proves it was not a separate species to begin with. Who witnessed this occurance?
Links please.
Of course it wasn't witnessed.....who "witnessed" the dinosaurs in exsistance....uh nobody......but we do know that they were here....!
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2586505
Except for a new mosquito species in the London underground system, except for the appearance of many new drosophila species when housed in lab conditions, except for... o, I don't need more since those two examples make your statement of "not one single time" true - it has happened in plain view many times, not one single time, and continues to occur.
Bam....
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2586509
Homo sapiens, for one.
And wham!
ps...I am not trying to be rude I promise!
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by peef
http:///forum/post/2586551
Of course it wasn't witnessed.....who "witnessed" the dinosaurs in exsistance....uh nobody......but we do know that they were here....!
Bam....
And wham!
ps...I am not trying to be rude I promise!
Where are my links that will prove one species became another new species? Please don't force me to take your (and geridocs) word for it. Please show me some evidence. If I say you both made it up, does that make it so? No. Please afford me the same respect.
I say God made it, you say it made itself. We are back at square one if you won't back up your claims.
Nice of you to allow geridoc to make the effort to try. Now it's your turn.
http:///forum/post/2586551
Of course it wasn't witnessed.....who "witnessed" the dinosaurs in exsistance....uh nobody......but we do know that they were here....!
Bam....
And wham!
ps...I am not trying to be rude I promise!
Where are my links that will prove one species became another new species? Please don't force me to take your (and geridocs) word for it. Please show me some evidence. If I say you both made it up, does that make it so? No. Please afford me the same respect.
I say God made it, you say it made itself. We are back at square one if you won't back up your claims.
Nice of you to allow geridoc to make the effort to try. Now it's your turn.
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by GeriDoc
http:///forum/post/2586509
Homo sapiens, for one.
Were there no intermediate species, or was it just KA-POW and a man was born? I don't see the emergence of man from chimpanzees. Surely all these mutations that would have to occur didn't happen at the same time. Did they?
http:///forum/post/2586509
Homo sapiens, for one.
Were there no intermediate species, or was it just KA-POW and a man was born? I don't see the emergence of man from chimpanzees. Surely all these mutations that would have to occur didn't happen at the same time. Did they?
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by peef
http:///forum/post/2586270
But I do agree with you totally that there are strick guidelines along the chain of evolution. Pigs don't evolve into ducks and dogs don't become cats I do agree with what you are saying there.
You realize Evolution explains all animals came from a common ancestor, right?
Lay out for me, if you would,
*how a single celled organism evolved into a multi-celled organism.
*How something like the cell wall or the Midochondria evolved. What are the intermediate steps?
*How a bird simultaneously evolved feathers, wings, lighter bones, sturdier breastbone, optics neccessary for flight, etc.
It's not nearly as simple as you are trying to make it out to be Peef.
http:///forum/post/2586270
But I do agree with you totally that there are strick guidelines along the chain of evolution. Pigs don't evolve into ducks and dogs don't become cats I do agree with what you are saying there.
You realize Evolution explains all animals came from a common ancestor, right?
Lay out for me, if you would,
*how a single celled organism evolved into a multi-celled organism.
*How something like the cell wall or the Midochondria evolved. What are the intermediate steps?
*How a bird simultaneously evolved feathers, wings, lighter bones, sturdier breastbone, optics neccessary for flight, etc.
It's not nearly as simple as you are trying to make it out to be Peef.
geridoc
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2586817
Were there no intermediate species, or was it just KA-POW and a man was born? I don't see the emergence of man from chimpanzees. Surely all these mutations that would have to occur didn't happen at the same time. Did they?
Nope, they didn't. Here is an approximate phylogenetic tree of Homo sapiens and Pan (chimp):
H. sapiens
H heidelbergensis
H erectus
H. ergaster
H. habilis
Au. afarensis--->Parnthropus probustus
P. boisel
Pan. (chimp)
afarensis is viewed as a common ancestor to the lines that led to sapiens and chimp. The fossil record is well documented with these organisms, and demonstrates that the line leading to samiens all had large brains, small teeth and were obligate bipedal (had to walk on 2 feet). The line to chimp all had small brains, large teeth, and were facultative bipedal (could walk on 2 or 4 feet). The approximate timeline for this covers about 4 million years.
http:///forum/post/2586817
Were there no intermediate species, or was it just KA-POW and a man was born? I don't see the emergence of man from chimpanzees. Surely all these mutations that would have to occur didn't happen at the same time. Did they?
Nope, they didn't. Here is an approximate phylogenetic tree of Homo sapiens and Pan (chimp):
H. sapiens
H heidelbergensis
H erectus
H. ergaster
H. habilis
Au. afarensis--->Parnthropus probustus
P. boisel
Pan. (chimp)
afarensis is viewed as a common ancestor to the lines that led to sapiens and chimp. The fossil record is well documented with these organisms, and demonstrates that the line leading to samiens all had large brains, small teeth and were obligate bipedal (had to walk on 2 feet). The line to chimp all had small brains, large teeth, and were facultative bipedal (could walk on 2 or 4 feet). The approximate timeline for this covers about 4 million years.
geridoc
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2586851
You realize Evolution explains all animals came from a common ancestor, right?
Lay out for me, if you would,
*how a single celled organism evolved into a multi-celled organism.
*How something like the cell wall or the Midochondria evolved. What are the intermediate steps?
*How a bird simultaneously evolved feathers, wings, lighter bones, sturdier breastbone, optics neccessary for flight, etc.
It's not nearly as simple as you are trying to make it out to be Peef.
Actually, in some cases it is easier. The cell wall forms due to the hydrophobic (water fearing) nature of lipids. Put the right lipids into water and you get a simple form of a cell membrane. As for multicellularity, there are many intermediates even today - single cell organisms that like to form colonial structures in which some of the cells in the colony begin to specialize. It isn't much of a stretch to imagine these stabilizing, and you have the beginnings of multicellularity. The current theory on mitochondria is that they were once free-living organisms that invaded cells, and a form of mutualism developed in which the host and invader both benefited. There is genetic evidence that this is so, but I don't believe there are any fossil remains of mitochondria available. Birds: the fossil evidence is that birds did not evolve all of those traits at once, and there probably is no single moment when you could point at an organism and say "BIRD!". Flight has evolved independently several times (bats, birds, flying squirrels), indicating that this is a sound survival strategy, and evolves without much difficulty. For a good introduction to these ideas and their supporting evidence, check out Neil Shubin's book, "Your Inner Fish".
http:///forum/post/2586851
You realize Evolution explains all animals came from a common ancestor, right?
Lay out for me, if you would,
*how a single celled organism evolved into a multi-celled organism.
*How something like the cell wall or the Midochondria evolved. What are the intermediate steps?
*How a bird simultaneously evolved feathers, wings, lighter bones, sturdier breastbone, optics neccessary for flight, etc.
It's not nearly as simple as you are trying to make it out to be Peef.
Actually, in some cases it is easier. The cell wall forms due to the hydrophobic (water fearing) nature of lipids. Put the right lipids into water and you get a simple form of a cell membrane. As for multicellularity, there are many intermediates even today - single cell organisms that like to form colonial structures in which some of the cells in the colony begin to specialize. It isn't much of a stretch to imagine these stabilizing, and you have the beginnings of multicellularity. The current theory on mitochondria is that they were once free-living organisms that invaded cells, and a form of mutualism developed in which the host and invader both benefited. There is genetic evidence that this is so, but I don't believe there are any fossil remains of mitochondria available. Birds: the fossil evidence is that birds did not evolve all of those traits at once, and there probably is no single moment when you could point at an organism and say "BIRD!". Flight has evolved independently several times (bats, birds, flying squirrels), indicating that this is a sound survival strategy, and evolves without much difficulty. For a good introduction to these ideas and their supporting evidence, check out Neil Shubin's book, "Your Inner Fish".
geridoc
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2586814
Where are my links that will prove one species became another new species? Please don't force me to take your (and geridocs) word for it. Please show me some evidence. If I say you both made it up, does that make it so? No. Please afford me the same respect.
I say God made it, you say it made itself. We are back at square one if you won't back up your claims.
Nice of you to allow geridoc to make the effort to try. Now it's your turn.
OK, lets discuss ring species as an example of new species, and speciation in action. Ring species are species that distributed in a line, such as around the base of a mountain. Each population is able to breed with its neighbor, but groups at the ends of the line are not able to interbreed. Examples are: greenish warblers (Phylloscopus trochiloides), around the Himalayas. Their behavioral and genetic characteristics change gradually, starting from central Siberia, extending around the Himalayas, and back again, so two forms of the songbird coexist but do not interbreed in that part of their range (Irwin, Darren E., Staffan Bensch and Trevor D. Price, 2001. Speciation in a ring. Nature 409: 333-337.). There are countless other examples of speciation that are plainly observable - I'll leave it up to you to go to the effort to Google them.
http:///forum/post/2586814
Where are my links that will prove one species became another new species? Please don't force me to take your (and geridocs) word for it. Please show me some evidence. If I say you both made it up, does that make it so? No. Please afford me the same respect.
I say God made it, you say it made itself. We are back at square one if you won't back up your claims.
Nice of you to allow geridoc to make the effort to try. Now it's your turn.
OK, lets discuss ring species as an example of new species, and speciation in action. Ring species are species that distributed in a line, such as around the base of a mountain. Each population is able to breed with its neighbor, but groups at the ends of the line are not able to interbreed. Examples are: greenish warblers (Phylloscopus trochiloides), around the Himalayas. Their behavioral and genetic characteristics change gradually, starting from central Siberia, extending around the Himalayas, and back again, so two forms of the songbird coexist but do not interbreed in that part of their range (Irwin, Darren E., Staffan Bensch and Trevor D. Price, 2001. Speciation in a ring. Nature 409: 333-337.). There are countless other examples of speciation that are plainly observable - I'll leave it up to you to go to the effort to Google them.