Got tank and fish...now have a few questions :-)

S

sirasoni

Guest
Hi all:
I recently purchased a 12 gallon fish tank and have installed everything including a heater, filter, etc. and have it at 77 degrees Farenheit. I purchased three Damsels, one striped, one blue, and one yellow, about 10 hours ago and they have been in there since. The blue one is really energetic and eats well, he also likes to hide in the rocks. I'm worried about the other two though. The yellow one seems to be always looking up and won't eat even when I pour the food right next to him, he is also usually near the top of the tank. He also doesn't swim fast and looks really confused. The striped one swims fine and has energy but will jam himself between things and not move sometimes. I guess I have some general questions:
When I feed them, the food always falls to the bottom of the tank. Do the fish eat it when it's down there or do they only eat when the food is falling down? Should I buy food that floats on the top? If not, then should I buy a gravel cleaner?
I know Damsels are really small, but how often should I feed them? I'm just kinda worried about the food situation, since it seems like my fish don't like to eat too much.
Thanks!
:happyfish
 
S

sirasoni

Guest
I've been cycling the tank for a week now, the salinity is also constant.
 
37g joe

37g joe

Member
okay you added three fish all at once thats not a good idea first of all. second what type of filter how long was your tank cycling, 3rd 12 gallons is real small only experts shold be messing with a tank that small buy the bigest tank you can afford you should start at the smallest and i do mean smallest a 29 gallon i say go up to a 37 not much more money. With thiose three fish you have already maxed out your tank if not suceeded it. also what are you feeding your fish (flake food) damsels well eat flake food but dont start out with that by some fozen brine shrimp or krill they love that. if your fish arnt feed dont just keep adding food. over feeding fish is a beginers biggest mistake. give them very lttle about as much as they can eat in a couple minutes. you need to slow down with what your doing i well be suprised if you dont loose one of your fishes if not all. Dont feel like im picking on you i have had my blunders too. the good news is that if you do get a bigger tank you can use the 12 gallon tank for a quarintine tank
 
S

sirasoni

Guest
ok... my friend said he could take a few of my fish if he needed to (he has a 180 gallon). Also how could three 1" fish max out a 12g tank? The salesperson said that I could have around 1" of fish for every gallon in the tank, and all of the manuals and books I've read say start by adding 2-3 fish.
The type of food is what came in my Marineland kit, consisting mainly of dried krill and fish meal.
Do you think I should switch to freshwater?
 
37g joe

37g joe

Member
1 fish per one gallon is what you would do in a fresh water tank and even at that thats pretty full okay stocking levels are pretty much across the bored 8 inches of fish per 22 gallons of water now i am a lttle more gererous than that i would say you could go with more but at what 13 gallons you coul maybe do 5 inches of fish but you have to remember your fish are going to geto 2 3 inches maybe 4 inches long at least a tolat fish length of 7 -9 inches you need a new lfs if there telling you that and make sure the books your reading are talking about salt water not fresh. also have you ever even done a freshwater tank? if not i sugest that you do befor moving to salt I sujest say with your tank if you want some colorful fish and dicide to hold off on salt water fish go with do some gromies like the dwarf variety very hard fish and very colrful and perfect for your size of tank they also are labrynth fish so they breath atmosperic air like betta's. sorry do burst your salt bubble bud but i would hate to see you get over your head and since you have a friend who has a salt watter tank ask him some q's. I spent about a year just readind different books befor getting into this hobby and im still learning alot. it just sounds like your lfs wanted to sell some fish. the most fish i would ever add would be two at a time. dude just be patient. oh and sorry for all my spelling errors im so sleepy
 
mikeyjer

mikeyjer

Active Member
It's not the size of the tank I'm thinking of right now...It's the cycling process I'm thinking of............Another one cycling with damsels........Not a good idea to do, should cycle your tank with raw shrimp instead. You should check up on how to cycle your tank, I'm getting a bit annoyed by this, I'm sure someone else will say something about this....I'll let it be... No other comments from me....
 
azocean709

azocean709

Member
I agree with mikey. YOU MUST CYCLE the tank. Patience it the biggest key in this hobby. I have a 55gal. sump, 60 lbs, Live sand and 60 lbs of live rock. i let my tank cycle for 2 months with that in there and a raw shrimp<my live rock was cured> i tested the water repeadedly. it took only a month to spike my ammonia level, but i let it keep going. did a 20% water change the 6th week, tested again. ammonia was near 0, 7th week i did a 10% water change. all my water perameters where awsome. the 8th week i did another 10% water change. It was only the 3rd month that i added my "CLEAN UP CREW". 20 blue leg hermits, 4 red velvet hermits, 15 turbo snails, 15 Nassarius snails, one brittle star, and a camel back shrimp. i let them do their little job for another month. all by them selves. then i started to add my corals. simple corals, polyps. brown buttons, yellow polyps, yellow gargonians, one piece at a time i put in. and to this day...i only have one fish. a royal gamma. i only bought it cause the fish store i bout it at is a bunch on idiots and it was going to die. My point is...PATIENCE and following the Order of things. if you stay with the correct program your tank/ tanks will flourish.
 
my way

my way

Active Member
Don't be so hard on the newbies, most of them find this site after they got bad advice from their LFS. It's a shame that so many pet stores give bad advice to people just starting out, as they could easily lose interest after losing fish due to bad advice. I would suggest you go back to the pet store and ask them if they would take back your damsels. Tell the politely that you feel they gave you bad advise on how to cyclce your tank. 3 damsels in a 12 gallon tank is WAY to much to start. If you have to cycle with fish rather than the raw shrimp I feel it should be done with only one. The advice you were given here on starting out with a larger tank can't be any better. the reason most people will tell you to go as big as possible is that you have a much bigger buffer zone if something gets out of whack with your water. Also the fish will be less stressed with more places to call their territory. Think of it this way would you be more comfortable if you had to live in one room with a bunch of people or just one or two?
 
leftyblite

leftyblite

Member
I agree with Myway, some LFS do give bad advice just to make $. I started with a 12G saltwater tank after reading for seveal months and researching this website. I have 1 Perc clown and a cleaner shrimp, plus a cleanup crew and everything is going great. I cycled for 3 weeks with live rock and live sand. You may have to visit more than 1 LFS to find a good one for your tank. Good luck
 
hot883

hot883

Active Member
Originally Posted by sirasoni
Hi all:
I recently purchased a 12 gallon fish tank and have installed everything including a heater, filter, etc. and have it at 77 degrees Farenheit. I purchased three Damsels, one striped, one blue, and one yellow, about 10 hours ago and they have been in there since. The blue one is really energetic and eats well, he also likes to hide in the rocks. I'm worried about the other two though. The yellow one seems to be always looking up and won't eat even when I pour the food right next to him, he is also usually near the top of the tank. He also doesn't swim fast and looks really confused. The striped one swims fine and has energy but will jam himself between things and not move sometimes. I guess I have some general questions:
When I feed them, the food always falls to the bottom of the tank. Do the fish eat it when it's down there or do they only eat when the food is falling down? Should I buy food that floats on the top? If not, then should I buy a gravel cleaner?
I know Damsels are really small, but how often should I feed them? I'm just kinda worried about the food situation, since it seems like my fish don't like to eat too much.
Thanks!
:happyfish
Hello and welcome to the boards. Yes, it's true; local fish store people ARE out to get your money. Most of them anyway. It sounds like yours is no different.
Atleast you found this site. Do yourself a favor, get a or several books on salt water fish keeping and read them, read on here and do a search on here about cycling the tank. Ammonia levels will reach high enough to either kill all the fish or permantely scar their gills by burning them.
Sorry we are bearers of bad news but thats the way it goes. We are here to help, not scold you. It just seems that alot of people see this as the same as freshwater which it is definately not.
A tank needs to cycle 4-6 weeks BEFORE anything live is added. PATIENCE is the key to this hobby (way of life).
Small fish like damsels can eat once or twice a day very small amounts, but in my opinion they should be taken back immediately. Hope that helps some.
 
danedodger

danedodger

Member
Yes, patience, patience, patience We should all remember that that goes for dealing with each other as well as our beloved tanks.

sirasoni, you've gotten some bad advice so far it sounds like
but you're not the first or last it's happened to and the good news is we can help you!!

First, a 12 gallon is definitely not impossible in the least! Many people enjoy smaller tanks but you'll have to remember that the water levels can go bad very fast in a smaller tank!
I think the first thing you should do is ask your friend if he can keep all your fish for you till you get everything set. Next you need to cycle your tank. Take a raw, peeled, the kind you take home to eat yourself shrimp and chuck it into the tank. As it decays it'll give off ammonia which is very toxic to fish. You can see the ammonia rise if you test the water. First the ammonia will rise making bacteria in the tank multiply. Those bacteria will turn the ammonia into nitrites which is also toxic to fish but not as much as ammonia. Then a second bacteria will start to multiply to turn the nitrites into nitrates, also toxic but not as much as nitrites. You'll see on your water tests the ammonia rise then fall as nitrites rise then fall as nitrates rise. When your tests show 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and whatever nitrate do a partial water change to bring the nitrates down to 20 or less and only then add one fish. Let your system adjust to that before you add another fish.
The general rule of thumb for stocking a freshwater tank is 1" of fish per gallon of water but not salt! If you're going to only have fish a general rule of thumb for saltwater could be more like 1" of fish per 3 gallons of water (although some people debate this). If you want to do a reef tank you count on fewer fish so a general rule of thumb might be closer to 1" of fish per 5 gallons of water. Do NOT count up inches of fish at the size they're at when you get them! Find out about how big they should grow to maximum size and add up those inches.
As for feeding, the best teacher of how much and what to feed your fish is to experiment and see what works! I've seen many fish that would snap up food as it floats down then, when it's clear to them that no more is coming, search along the bottom for bits they missed. I've also seen fish that would absolutely refuse to eat off the bottom! The bottom line is you don't want uneaten food sitting around in your tank. As it decays it will foul the water making it more and more unsafe for fish. Feed the tiniest bit and watch. If your fish gobble all that up so that none is left over at all give them another tiny little bit. Keep that up until you get a better idea of how much they'll eat at once. If they seem hungry later in the day try it again! Anything they don't eat should be taken back out with either a net, siphon, or even little scavengers like hermit crabs.
Give a big variety of as much as they'll eat but not a pinch more. Try anything and everything to see if they like it! Some people even make their own foods! There's mysis shrimp, Emerald Entree, Formula 1 and 2 in frozen and pellet, marine flakes, and loads and loads more! Just keep in mind the general eating habits of your fish like if they're mainly carnivorous or herbivorous.
 
S

sirasoni

Guest
Ok, thanks guys.
So I should keep the heater/filter on and drop a shrimp into the tank? Should I leave him there for like 2 weeks? Would it also be better to order some live sand, etc?
Thanks again
 
37g joe

37g joe

Member
if you goto your lfs yoy can get usually like a cup full or so of live sand from one of their tanks they usually give it to you for free. then just add regular crushed coral sand the live sand you put in their well make the rest alive but well take a little time but its a cheap way to get some live sand. most of the live sand that you can order isnt that great either.
 
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