Got to get the metal out!

[fishycouple]

Hi, I appreciate the info on the problem I had with my snails dying. It seems I DO have "some" heavy metal in the water..it tests to .5 on the "copper" test. I have been told ny the LFS is "CAN NOT" be copper because my live rock is alive and well, and even has a few tiny feather dusters on it that open and close as my fish swim by.
My tank is 55 gallon with a wet/dry sump with a protein skimmer in it. Also I have very little substrate (crushed coral), with about 50 lbs of live rock in the tank. I have a Bio-Filter pad under the return to the sump, so all the water that is filtered must go thru it. I also have a bag filled with activated carbon in the sump. There are two additional powerheads in the tank to keep the water moving behind the live rock.
My temp stays about 78 degrees, the salinity is about 1.020, there is usually a slight trace of ammonia, it's slightly yellow, but under the 0.0 mark on the tester, (i'm an ez touch for a little extra food to fish that look hungry), there was no nitrite and no nitrate the last time i checked. The ph is about 8.2 to 8.4 depending on the time of the day I check.
I have a yellow tang, a Maroon/gold clown and 3 green chromis in the tank. I have lost a bunch of hermit crabs and snails and one brittle star (the dealer made him come back to life), and 3 anemones before it was determined I have a metal problem.
I started the tank with tap water but it has had a bunch of water changes.
There has never been any medicine in the tank!
My question is: Could the pump (rio 2100) in the sump be leaking the metal into the water? I have never been able to keep a snail alive since even before I put any live rock in the tank. If I decide to replace this pump (assuming it is the culprit), what is the best way to start over, and what can I salvage? Live rock I hope!!!!
I want to have inverts at some time!
Please help....If you have any ideas where this metal could be coming from, I'll look!
Thanks,
Rick

 

[kmr]

Heres some interesting Rio comments. http://www.reefland.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000042.html
My experiance with them is bad too. They make too much noise for me.

 

[clayton]

Carbon will remove the copper, but if there is somethiing in the tank (coin, piece of wiring, or even metal that came in with your substrate you will have to find it). Try the carbon first and see what happens.
Any trace of ammonia indicates a big problem.

 

[broomer5]

Not real sure about this but was wondering how old your house ( water pipes ) are, and if copper piping is used. You mentioned tap water intially, with water changes. Is tap water being used for all water top offs and water changes too ?? Sort of out on a limb with this one, but was wondering if old copper water pipes in house could contribute to any residual trace copper in your tank.
Just a thought

Broomer

 

[fishycouple]

Thanks for the input..I am really confused on this one. My house is 20 years old and here in Texas the pipes are in the attic and are all Galvanized...no copper!
The initial fill was made from tap water, but all top-offs and water changes have been from LFS's RO fresh and salt water. The initial fill was in April this year.
I have removed about 1/2 of the crushed coral from the tank recently..leaving only a small amount. When I initially washed the crushed coral, there was nothing there but coral.
When I set up the tank, I used rocks purchased from the LFS, not live rock, but rocks with many holes in them for fish to hide. These rocks are still in the tank as I have used them for a base for the live rock. I understand rocks are composed of many minerals (many of them metallic), could the rocks be the problem?
If the Rio pump was leaching metal (copper) into the water, wouldnt the water also burn up the pump?
I'm afraid there is a supply of the metal in the tank (I can't figure out where from tho) since the level will not get lower than .5 ppm even after using carbon and the Poly-filter. I've had the poly-filter in for about 3 weeks.
Any ideas will be thoroughly researched. Thanks
Rick

 

[mr . salty]

Another stab in the dark. Do you have any algae growing in the tank?? Copper kills all algae.........STEVE

 

[fishycouple]

I have several pieces of live rock (small) with red algae growing on it..It has been growing fine since I put it in the tank about a month ago.
The Houston water may look good on paper, but believe me it sometimes has a bad odor, and bad taste too. When I took my first water sample to the LFS, the owner said it was the worst water he had seen in some time..but he didn't go further than that.
My LFS keeps telling me it is some other metal other than copper, but my snails have all died. Yesterday I lost a large hermit crab that had been in there for about 3 weeks. He just kinda got mushy and floated out of his shell. I still have 3 tiny blue leg hermits that were put in the same time as the algae.
Could there be any metal in the live rock..not necessarily copper, baybe lead or some other toxic ore?
I really appreciate all the input!
Rick

 

[mr . salty]

You may not have a copper problem.When I was reading an article about algae control It said " copper sulfate was orriginally used as an algae killer in tanks and ponds".Parasite controle was an added bonus.This makes sence because my hospital tank is spotless,and it stays treated with copper. If you have algae,you may not have copper. STEVE

 

[fishycouple]

the only time we have orange/brown stains in the basin is when the water is turned off for a while by the city....when it comes back on YES, we have stains!

 

[fishycouple]

The rust might be a problem..but the only time tap water was put into the tank was the initial fill. All top-ups and water changes have been with RO purchased from my LFS. I change a minimum of 10% of the water (sometimes 20%, if I muck it up by moving things around), every 10 days or so. I'm pretty sure not much of the original water is still in the tank.
I have also been seriously trying to rid the tank of the metal since I found out there was some in it, about 3 weeks ago.
I have been using a bag of carbon in my sump and a Poly Filter manufactured by Poly-Bio-Marine. I have changed this poly filter with a new one (@ $12. each) each week. I have the poly filter positioned directly under the tank return outlet in my sump. This filter claims to remove heavy metals, yet in the three weeks I have been using one, my reading has remained constant at .5 ppm This leads me to believe there is some constant supply of this metal in the tank.
If the reading is the same tomorrow, I will replace my sump pump (rio 2100) with a new one and remove the base rock I put in the tank initially. I had the snail deaths from the beginning when the tank cycled and at that time there was no live rock in the tank, so I'm pretty sure IT isn't the culprit.
The mystery continues!
Rick

 

[mr . salty]

Keep us informed,I'm sure we're all thinking about your problem.I even found myself thinking about it this afternoon while I was competing in a horseshoe tournament...STEVE

 

[mr . salty]

I also find it hard to believe that a pump,made for aquarium use,by a major manufacturer can be the cause.....STEVE

 

[blacktip]

Just for a goof......Seachem make a product called cupisorb....it is specificly made to remove copper and heavy metals you may want to try this also which copper test are you using? I have found a few differnet manufacturors who's test kit is very inaccurate.Therefore copper may not even be the problem. just for a goof, see if you have any stray voltage I have come accross quite a few rio pumps who's power cords where not corrected installed at the entrance of the pump causing a great deal of voltage to enter the aquarium. Try a grounding probe. Good luck!!

 

[fishycouple]

Hi..the metal tests are being done by the LFS, and he is just as perplexed as I am...I'm not sure what test he uses.
I suspected voltage leaks, and checked with a voltmeter, one probe dropped into the sump and the other in the third hole in a wall outlet..no noticible voltage present..also when I put my hand in the sump, I don't get real straight hair..lol
great ideas...keep them coming, please!
Rick

 

[broomer5]

Hey Rick,
The mystery continues here. I was looking back re-reading this post and another thing popped into my head. You mentioned using some rocks with holes purchased from lfs. Are these rocks you have used as base for LR from the ocean as well, or from another source ( lava rock, etc. ) And is it possible that these rocks may have been used in a tank that had been treated with copper ?
When it comes to putting things in our saltwater tanks, someone once told me " if it didn't come from the ocean, don't put it in there".
The other thought I had was possibly taking a water sample to another lfs for 2nd opinion, or better yet, get yourself a kit for home.
Good luck !
Broomer

 

[broomer5]

Rick,
Without getting too anal retentive here on this topic, I was reading some old articles regarding copper and heavy metals in salt tanks, and came across this info from Albert J. Thiel. Here's a suggestion he recommends if trying to determine if any rock has copper in it.
I quote:
"If the rock you want to place in the tank appears to have been used before, do not add it to a reef tank. You must first examine it to make sure it does not contain any precipitated copper. To do so, place the rock in copper free fresh water. Lower the pH of that water by adding some acid to it, e.g. a little muriatic acid found at many hardware stores. Let the rock sit in that solution for 12-24 hours. Move it around forcefully in the water from time to time. After 12-24 hours perform a copper test on the water. If copper is present it obviously came out of the rock (s). Don't use it in your reef aquarium."
End quote.
I realize that the all your rock has been in the tank, and may contain copper from whatever the source is, but still found this to be interesting test.
Just another thought on this subject.
Hope you solve the mystery.
Broomer

 

[fishycouple]

Hi again:
Just returned from the LFS and he did a new test. Since the last one, a week ago, I did a 20% water change and put in a new poly-filter. The Copper/Metal test first turned a light bluish grey, then went clear. Before it has always gone yellow. He thinks we might have gotten it, so he suggested we take a condy anemone home and give it a try. I did!
My MAroon/Gold clown is absolutely going nuts over this condy, but the anemone is having none of it! So far so good, the Anemone seems happy and has lasted for 2 hours so far!!! Yea!
I'll keep you posted.
Rick

 

[fishycouple]

Hello Again:
I have had my fingers crossed all day..the Condylactis Anenome is still alive...He is real upset with the Gold/Maroon Clownfish, however...the clown WILL NOT leave the Anemone alone...this morning the clown was asleep right in the middle of the Condy!
I know they aren't supposed to like each other..but, Hey, My Clown is Easy!
I have ordered (from the bargainbliss.com website) a copper test kit, and I plan to test the Houston water supply as soon as it gets here.
Hopefully this problem is solved...I'll keep you posted, and THANKS A MILLION for all the input!
I now have another question regarding my poor yellow tang...I'll post it as "Icky Tang" Please offer your expert opinions on this situation as well..
Thanks again,
Rick