Green Mandarin Question

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marineang

Guest
I've always wanted one but never had an established enough tank...
The nano cube dx that I just inheritated is 5+ years old...in the back of the cube, there is a compartment with live rock and a filter sponge, then a compartment with algae (long stringy....can't remember the name of it). About an hour after I shut the lights out, if I shine a light on there, I can see the hundreds of copepods.
Here's my question....
If they are back there, (much like when they are in the sump too)...how does the Mandarin get them??
I just want to make sure....then I'm placing an order on swf asap.
Thanks,
Angela
 

mboswell1982

Active Member
your tank isnt large enough to support a mandarin, they need a tank upwards of at least 40g, with a large refugium, they can eat upwards of 200 pods a day, on a slow day
 
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marineang

Guest
Ok well this site states minimum tank size is 10g and my tank is bigger than that so I'm confused.
Your tank is still in the making (I've been following your thread & pics often)...so I know you haven't had one. Just wondering where you saw this info....
Conflicting facts...always hard.
 
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usirchchris

Guest
Years ago I had a Mandarin in a 90 gallon. At that time I knew nothing about pods and the Mandarin's requirement. It lasted a few months and then died. Doesn't really answer your question exactly, but my point is...don't know how relevant the size of your tank is, but rather how many pods you have and can sustain. However, the larger the tank...the easier to sustain a larger population I would gather.
 

mboswell1982

Active Member
instead of the response i was originally going to give you, ill just give you this instead.
Green Mandarin
(Synchiropus splendidus)
QUICK STATS
Minimum Tank Size: 40 gallons
Care Level: Difficult
Temperament: Peaceful
Reef Compatible: Yes
Water Conditions: 72-78° F, dKH 8-12, sg 1.020-1.025, pH 8.1-8.4
Max. Size: 4"
Color Form: Blue, Green, Orange
Diet: Carnivore
Origin: Indo-Pacific
Family: Callionymidae
and yes, they can eat on average 200+ pods a day, they graze over your rock constantly eating every pod they can get. the size of the fuge youve got will not be enough, it cant hold enough rock, to allow enough pods to breed fast enough to support your mandarin, he will literally wipe out your pod population in a matter of weeks
 
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marineang

Guest
I appreciate the time you are taking to respond but you haven't answered my original question or my 2nd one either. I know you have become an avid poster in just a few months. Any advice you give is reiterated from somewhere or someone, which isn't a bad thing, but I spend hours during the course of any given day researching things as well. You can find most anything on the internet but that doesn't mean the info is correct. In the aquarist books I do have, this topic isn't covered and sometimes, you just want to hear from those who have gone through the same experiences.
I am thankful that you responded, I just really wish we could have targeted my questions....
Not sure where you are getting your cut and paste information, but the info listed here on THIS site say one thing and you posted something to the contrary. I tend to go with what I read here over others...same with the people on here who have the most biggest amount of invaluable first hand info.
Also, side note - this site also explains that in conjunction with the live pods, more should be purcahsed as well.
Please don't jump to lecture. If you are going to protest, ok- I welcome any advice, but at least try to touch on my questions as well, or stick mainly to posts that involve what you've done up to this point. But if your adamant, then tell the mod's that swf has wrong info on fish selection.
 
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marineang

Guest
Originally Posted by usirchchris
http:///forum/post/2909101
Years ago I had a Mandarin in a 90 gallon. At that time I knew nothing about pods and the Mandarin's requirement. It lasted a few months and then died. Doesn't really answer your question exactly, but my point is...don't know how relevant the size of your tank is, but rather how many pods you have and can sustain. However, the larger the tank...the easier to sustain a larger population I would gather.
Yeah, I have seen so many posts talking about losing them due to not eating. You can imagine my excitement to finally have a tank with pods present. From what I was reading up on, you can purcahse additional as long as you have the colonies they can thrive in. Did yours start to look thinner to give any indication he wasn't eating? I'm not going to get one and risk it, but am interested in how it happened with you. I'm assuming they eat at night because I can't see the pods in the daytime?
 

-tara33-

Member
ive kept one in a 40g for around 10 months, the tank was full to the brim with live rock had a fuge the tank was going for about a year n half, thousands of pods, after about 3 months barly any pods to be seen at night (he was a fat little thing for the first 2 months) after that had to buy pods twice a week for about 7 months, slowly got skinnier and skinnier and eventially died at around 11 months, just shows that you just cant keep up with the amount that they need, i know ppl that have tried these fish in 300g reef tanks and still not survive. the less demand and trials the less deaths. leave these fish in the ocean!
some ppl will probs come on here and be like "well i have one and its lived for like 6 months and still going great", these fish can go a very long time before they actually die, and yes they can be trained to eat normal food, but it does not nutritionally benifit them for a long period of time.
 
I agree a 12gal is just way to small for this fish. I tryed one in my 24 gal *my choice*. It lasted for 3 months. My hubby did not know that much about them and went and bought another one *after I told him I did not want to try it again cause they need at least a 50gal or more* I have read they need 75 gal or more. I came home to it after I got off work. Anyways cause of him we tryed 3 of them.. They are really hard to keep and do need a very large tank and lots of rock and tons and tons of pods.. I do have to agree tho keep them in ocean.. It never works out for them in the end. No matter how large or how small the tank is. They are breath taking and I would love to have one.. But after 3 trys *still mad about that!!!*... I wont do it again it is not fair on the fish... So I know you do not want to hear it.. But 12 gal is just to small for this fish. I know some sites it says it will be fine blah blah.. But its not...
I know you want one.. So do I.. They are breath taking!!!
I even bought pods... I bought every other day 2,000 pods from my lfs to try to keep up with how many it ate a day. * Spent a lot of money that way.. And it just never worked out..
 
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marineang

Guest
Wow, little piglets they are, huh? That I did not know. Yeah, I've read how hard they are to keep, which is why I never did it. I can't attempt it if expereinced people can't even do it. It's not that I don't want to hear it... I'm all about for the well being of the fish. I can't bear the thought of it dying a slow starving death. I would have done what you did, kept buying more, thinking it would suffice.
Some days I feel like most fish are better left in the ocean for so many reasons, so I understand that reasoning.
Thanks for the response....no 3 tries here. I've lost some clowns in the past and it almost swore me off them...luckily they are hardier :)
Thanks to you and Tara.
That's ok, i'll stick to going broke now on corals which is my newest fascination. Couple weeks ago I couldn't imagine spending more $ on fish related things than a single fish....ahhh....come to find out, corals are expensive, if not more. Got to love it.....well, obvioulsy we do :)
 

jackri

Active Member
They aren't little piglets... thats the problem. They are SUPER finicky eaters except for pods. I have a 90 gallon tank with 100lbs + of live rock and a 26 gallon sump full of pods. My first mandarin starved... the second I got actually ate frozen mysis shrimp (which if you can get them to eat frozen foods you have a MUCH better chance of survival with them). The second one however developed some light spots on his skin and died within the first 2 weeks although he ate mysis shrimp.... I'm guessing bad livestock from lfs.
The deal on mandarins is... yes 12 gallon tank is big enough IF YOU CAN FEED IT, and 90 gallons can be tooo small if you can't sustain a large enough pod population and won't eat frozen foods.
If you get a healthy fish to start with and will eat frozen foods as a secondary menu item you should have a long lived mandarin -- also my favorite fish and will try another once my carpet anemone finds a home. Can't find anyone to take him locally for free and don't want him sitting in poor conditioned LFS tanks.
 
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usirchchris

Guest
Originally Posted by marineang
http:///forum/post/2909114
Yeah, I have seen so many posts talking about losing them due to not eating. You can imagine my excitement to finally have a tank with pods present. From what I was reading up on, you can purcahse additional as long as you have the colonies they can thrive in. Did yours start to look thinner to give any indication he wasn't eating? I'm not going to get one and risk it, but am interested in how it happened with you. I'm assuming they eat at night because I can't see the pods in the daytime?
I'll be honest this was back when I was around 12 or 13 years old...I am 30 now. It is the only 1 I tried to keep. I don't really remember any specifics aside it not lasting long...only since discovering this site did I realize the likely problem.
 

spanko

Active Member
From Bob Fenner, the author of The Conscientious Marine Aquarist.
Quote:
"The predominantly offered genus is Synchiropus. Synchiropus splendidus is the Blue, and Synchiropus picturatus, the Green or Spotted Mandarin. These two have one of the most dismal survival records of captive marines. Almost all perish within a month of wild capture... most often due to simple starvation.
Related FAQs: Psychedelic "Gobies"/Dragonets/Mandarins & their Relatives 1, Mandarins 2 , Mandarins 3, Mandarin Identification, Mandarin Behavior, Mandarin Selection, Mandarin Systems, Mandarin Compatibility, Mandarin Feeding, Mandarin Feeding 2, Mandarin Disease/Health, Mandarins/Blennies/Gobies & Crypt, Mandarin Reproduction,
Related Articles: Gobies & their Relatives,
/The Conscientious Reef Aquarist
Mandarins, Psychedelic "Gobies", Dragonets, Scooter Blennies....YAH! Family Callionymidae
By Bob Fenner
Synchiropus ocellatus
Often going by the common name "gobies", the Dragonets actually occupy an adjacent Suborder (the Callionymoidei). "True" Gobioids vary from them in a few obvious ways: placement and shape of pelvic fins (anterior to the pectorals in Callionymids, posterior and suction-like in Gobioids), the opening of the gills (small apertures up behind the head in Callionymids, larger in gobiods) .The fourteen genera and about 186 species of the family Callionymidae are typified by small gill openings, by having broad, depressed heads, and scaleless bodies with two dorsal fins... Living on the bottom with a characteristic "scooting" type of locomotion.
The predominantly offered genus is Synchiropus. Synchiropus splendidus is the Blue, and Synchiropus picturatus, the Green or Spotted Mandarin. These two have one of the most dismal survival records of captive marines. Almost all perish within a month of wild capture... most often due to simple starvation.
Selection:
The principal selection criteria for picking out healthy dragonets are their fullness of body and activity level. Suitable specimens should not be skinny, and should be out and about, investigating their environment. For sure you want to see the specimen/s eat.
Selection: (Andy Bulgin input/corr.)
The principal selection criteria for picking out healthy dragonets are their fullness of body and activity level. Suitable specimens should not be skinny, and should be out and about, investigating their environment.
For sure you want to see the specimen/s eat. [If the specimen/s is not actively hunting for food and/or is skinny, do not buy it.]
Above, an okay "index of fitness" Green/Spotted Mandarin and one that is too characteristically thin (note, "line" along body midline).
Habitat:
Some species of mandarins offered in the trade are found on nothing other than sandy bottoms, but the Green/Spotted and Blue/Psychedelic species are almost always located in and amongst (mainly Acroporid) coral rubble, which they only venture out past sunset to feed and interact with their own kind.
Foods/Feeding:
As stated over and over, feeding, or rather a lack therein is THE common cause of loss of these animals. They spend many hours seeking out small live invertebrates living in/on live rock and substrates. If these are not present or otherwise supplied, you will see your mandarins sides sink in and its vigor wane. Live foods can be bought on a regular basis, cultured in separate vessels, in an attached fishless refugium. Starter cultures for these organisms can be purchased from companies that you can find on the Internet using the search terms: "live plankton fish food".
Do not fall into the trap of offering nothing but adult live brine shrimp, suffused with supplements (e.g. Selcon) or not. It’s not unheard of that a dragonet will accept (with training) frozen/defrosted foods in place of live, but it is rare that non-live foods sustain them. Whatever other writers have stated, Mandarins almost never accept enough of anything other than live foods that are omnipresent in their system to sustain themselves. A nutrient rich live rock reef tank, read that as one heavily populated with hard substrates, with substantial interstitial crustacean and worm, and other small sessile invertebrate life of about 100 gallons will support one individual. And this assumes you have no similar food-competing tankmates.
In the wild their food choices are principally small crustaceans and worms. You can culture these "incidentally" in a large main/display system with lots of substrate and/or live rock, but adding a live fishless refugium will go an immense distance in assuring your mandarin/s receive sufficient live food. These fishes cannot live on dried-prepared or frozen/defrosted, or chopped meaty foods."
I hope that helps a little. You will read anecdotally of people keeping them on frozen mysis etc. But long term and the odds are against us.
 

shyshko08

Member
I bought a book called "What Fish? A Buyers Guide to Marine Fish" By:Tristan Lougher
I looked up the Mandarin and heres what it says.
What Does It Eat:

Should accept live brine shrimp, and the best examples will readily take frozen offerings of same. However, the presence in the aquarium is self-sustaining natural populations of crustaceans is essential. These will include tanaidaceans, cope pods, and amphipods, all of which form the major part of this species natural diet.
What Minimum Size Tank?

26 gal (100l) should be sufficient to hold the live rock essential for this species
 

gypsana

Active Member
I got into this hobby because I loved the mandarin so much. I started with a 20 gal then had a 45 gal tall and now I have a 90+ that I made myself. I have three fish a maroon clown , coral beauty, and a royal gramma. The tank has almost been up for a year.
Over the few years in this hobby I have had livestock die because they never should have been sold (taught me a lesson as well to never impulse buy).
I have given up my dream to have a mandarin because watching a fish die from starvation is excruciating. As well as having any pet die.
I will get other fish but ones that can thrive in captivity. I am learning a great deal of patience in this hobby and there is never too much research (the people on this forum are awesome!). I really am taking my time and letting my tank train me.
 

hlcroghan

Active Member
who doesn't want one of these?? they are amazing looking. the only way you would be able to do it in a nano tank is if you bought pods every day and dumped them in. very expensive and unrealistic. i am even hesitant to try it in the 120 that I am getting. afraid that it will starve and i won't see it. that i will find a little shriveled corpse in a few months.
 

cal559

Member
Originally Posted by marineang
http:///forum/post/2909110
I appreciate the time you are taking to respond but you haven't answered my original question or my 2nd one either. I know you have become an avid poster in just a few months. Any advice you give is reiterated from somewhere or someone, which isn't a bad thing, but I spend hours during the course of any given day researching things as well. You can find most anything on the internet but that doesn't mean the info is correct. In the aquarist books I do have, this topic isn't covered and sometimes, you just want to hear from those who have gone through the same experiences.
I am thankful that you responded, I just really wish we could have targeted my questions....
Not sure where you are getting your cut and paste information, but the info listed here on THIS site say one thing and you posted something to the contrary. I tend to go with what I read here over others...same with the people on here who have the most biggest amount of invaluable first hand info.
Also, side note - this site also explains that in conjunction with the live pods, more should be purcahsed as well.
Please don't jump to lecture. If you are going to protest, ok- I welcome any advice, but at least try to touch on my questions as well, or stick mainly to posts that involve what you've done up to this point. But if your adamant, then tell the mod's that swf has wrong info on fish selection.
Don't cut and paste Spanko...someone doesn't like that...lol
 

faqbch99

Member
Ahh what the hell it is only your $ and a little fishes life, go for it, when it dies someone will just go aquaculture you a new one.
 
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