ground fault circuit interrupter.You need one!!

[drpaul84]

hey i was talkin to wattsupdoc the other day an he brought up a good point, using a gfi receptacle while is great if something fails, also is bad if it fails and you arnt around to remedy the situation, so if your out for the whole day or for 2 days, what if the gfi trips now ALL your equipment is off, so what he mentioned was putting 2 receptacles (dual gang box) and using those GFI dongles and having 4 of the dongles and having your equipment on 4 power strips, so if someone on one of the powertrips fails , only that stuff will stop working, so if you have 2 heaters put them on separate gfi's same as your pumps and skimmer, so you dont lose all your equipment if only 1 piece fails, im going to be changing out my gfi putting in a 2 gang box and using 4 gfi dongles on instead

 

[cosmokramer]

I agree with wattsupdoc. If you look up installation instructions for a GFCI receptacle, you will likely find something like this: "Don't use a GFCI as a receptacle for a refrigerator, freezer, or any other appliance that must stay on all the time; the device may trip off without your knowing."
I like wattsupdoc's solution.

 

[rcreations]

Something similar happened to me, except this one was my fault. I did the regular water change in my tank and messed with the sump a little, to clean some stuff. Turned everything back on, no problems. Then a few hours later, I look and my corals weren't waving around like usual. Check it out closely and notice all my powerheads and sump pump were off! Look at the GFCI and it tripped and turned off everything. Then I look around and I see the connection in my pipe work dripping, slowly, but it dripped right on the outlet, which tripped it. Good thing I had it or who knows what might have happened. Turns out it was my fault as I didn't tighten the connection enough after I finished my cleaning.

 

[acrylic51]

Hey SCSInet......wouldn't the Arc Fault be a better choice to use for the application? Personally I never use any on my systems.......

 

[sigmachris]

OK here is a scenario if you have a minute.
The outlets near my tank aren't GFCI but it is on the same breaker as our guest bath which does have a GFCI. Am I covered if water got on the outlet or power strips?
Thanks for an interesting lesson,
Chris

 

[dinki]

Originally Posted by SigmaChris
http:///forum/post/2477664
OK here is a scenario if you have a minute.
The outlets near my tank aren't GFCI but it is on the same breaker as our guest bath which does have a GFCI. Am I covered if water got on the outlet or power strips?
I'm pretty sure you can press the test or reset button and it will cut the power to everything downline from the GFCI. Get someone to press the button on the GFCI and watch the tank. If the power goes out to the tank's receptacle then I'm pretty sure it's protected.
As a note to my previous posts, I went to Lowe's this weekend and picked up a Shock Buster 5 outlet plugin GFCI for my tank. Much easier than trying to get inside my stand to wire an actual GFCI receptacle. Cost was about $15-17 . They did have the dongle but it was on the order of $25.

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by SigmaChris
http:///forum/post/2477664
OK here is a scenario if you have a minute.
The outlets near my tank aren't GFCI but it is on the same breaker as our guest bath which does have a GFCI. Am I covered if water got on the outlet or power strips?
Thanks for an interesting lesson,
Chris
I don't think you would be necessarily, but I think it would depend how the outlets are wired......Is the outlets wired before or after your GFCI outlet in the bathroom?

 

[sigmachris]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/2477704
I don't think you would be necessarily, but I think it would depend how the outlets are wired......Is the outlets wired before or after your GFCI outlet in the bathroom?
I honestly don't know...the house is only 4 years old and I have limited knowledge on wiring. I think the scenario would be breaker to GFCI to other rooms, but that is just a guess. I will try Dinki's button test tonight.
I do know this as I just remembered and should have posted earlier...about a month ago I was doing a water change and a small amount of water splashed behind the tank. Everything shut down immediatley and would only start up after I reset the GFCI in the bathroom. So in that scenario it sounds like it is protected, am I correct?
Thanks for the help,
Chris

 

[dinki]

Sure sounds that way.

 

[metweezer]

Originally Posted by SigmaChris
http:///forum/post/2477718
I do know this as I just remembered and should have posted earlier...about a month ago I was doing a water change and a small amount of water splashed behind the tank. Everything shut down immediatley and would only start up after I reset the GFCI in the bathroom. So in that scenario it sounds like it is protected, am I correct?
Thanks for the help,
Chris
I would normally think that anything after the GFCI in the bathroom would be protected. But, if the scenario that you stated above is what happened, then I would say that it is protected as well and you're good to go.
Steve

 

[mikesin]

Originally Posted by drpaul84
http:///forum/post/2476602
hey i was talkin to wattsupdoc the other day an he brought up a good point, using a gfi receptacle while is great if something fails, also is bad if it fails and you arnt around to remedy the situation, so if your out for the whole day or for 2 days, what if the gfi trips now ALL your equipment is off, so what he mentioned was putting 2 receptacles (dual gang box) and using those GFI dongles and having 4 of the dongles and having your equipment on 4 power strips, so if someone on one of the powertrips fails , only that stuff will stop working, so if you have 2 heaters put them on separate gfi's same as your pumps and skimmer, so you dont lose all your equipment if only 1 piece fails, im going to be changing out my gfi putting in a 2 gang box and using 4 gfi dongles on instead
Ya, Im hoping to get around this with my ACIII - it has the ability to e-mail/text my cell phone when power is out and or restored. I just need a small UPS (uninterrupted power supply) to connect it to since my modem and router are already connected to a UPS

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by SigmaChris
http:///forum/post/2477664
OK here is a scenario if you have a minute.
The outlets near my tank aren't GFCI but it is on the same breaker as our guest bath which does have a GFCI. Am I covered if water got on the outlet or power strips?
Thanks for an interesting lesson,
Chris
If you hit the test button on the GFI in the bathroom, and the tank's power goes out, then you are protected. The test button on the GFI cuts power to the outlet itself and anything that is configured "downstream." Just because it's the same circuit doesn't mean the electrician wired it that way. GFI outlets can be set up to operate independantly, or they can operate every other outlet further down the line. My bathrooms are wired that way, but in my fish room, I have several GFI outlets on the circuit operating independantly, one (and sometimes two) for each tank.
Another way you can tell... get a GFI tester. They'll set you back no more than 10-15 bucks. Plug it into your tank's power strip, and hit the button. They simulate a ground fault, but will not trip an ordinary breaker. If the GFI pops and the tank's power goes out, you're good to go. If not, then you either have a tank that is unprotected by a GFI or a defective GFI.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/2477646
Hey SCSInet......wouldn't the Arc Fault be a better choice to use for the application? Personally I never use any on my systems.......
I don't think so. AFIs are designed to shut down the power in the event of an electrical arc, which is not always the type of fault that occurs with a fish tank. Very often, a voltage problem in the tank can occur with no arcing.
The point of an AFI is to stop an electrical arc as a fire prevention measure.
In the end, an AFI is a property protecting device. A GFI is a life safety device. The latter is what you want.
Coupled with a grounding probe, the tank will be protected from BOTH an arc fault and a ground fault condition with just a GFI.

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2478034
I don't think so. AFIs are designed to shut down the power in the event of an electrical arc, which is not always the type of fault that occurs with a fish tank. Very often, a voltage problem in the tank can occur with no arcing.
The point of an AFI is to stop an electrical arc as a fire prevention measure.
In the end, an AFI is a property protecting device. A GFI is a life safety device. The latter is what you want.
Coupled with a grounding probe, the tank will be protected from BOTH an arc fault and a ground fault condition with just a GFI.
Thanks Dave!!!!!!

I knew you could clear that up for me.....I've never used either on my setups, but know alot of people that do.....

 

[t316]

Let's back up, and can someone re-explain whatsupdoc's theory. I currently am not GFCI protected. I have one receptacle nearby in a hall that was designed to be GFCI (which leads to all receptacles involving the tank. I purposefully did not put in the GFCI because of problems with others in the house randomly tripping. Was worried (no, I knew) that this would happen at some point when I am not at home due to the overload in the receptacles around the tank.
So, with whatsupdoc's theory, this solves the "if it happens when I'm not at home, so only that one item will shut off", but what if you have an accident while your hand is in the tank? How do you know that will be the exact one that trips? There are 3 others right?

 

[viper_930]

Basically the more the merrier. If you have your equipment hooked up to multiple seperate GFCIs and one trips, only the equipment on that one GFCI will shut off. If you have EVERYTHING on one GFCI and it trips, EVERYTHING will shut off.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/2478219
Let's back up, and can someone re-explain whatsupdoc's theory. I currently am not GFCI protected. I have one receptacle nearby in a hall that was designed to be GFCI (which leads to all receptacles involving the tank. I purposefully did not put in the GFCI because of problems with others in the house randomly tripping. Was worried (no, I knew) that this would happen at some point when I am not at home due to the overload in the receptacles around the tank.
Nuisance tripping (say that five times fast ) is nothing new to GFIs, and the nature of tanks can lend itself to nuisance tripping.
That's why it's important to divide your critical equipment up across at least two GFIs. A well designed setup is one that is resilient and fault tolerant, with no single points of failure. The idea is that none of the equipment that runs your tank that is critical (I.E. where a failure would lead to a rapid demise of tank inhabitants) only exists as a single item. It goes beyond GFIs... it goes go heaters, pumps, etc. For example... look at your tank setup. Do you have only one heater? What happens if it fails? Would your return pump failing lead to a total loss of water flow? A resilient, fault tolerant setup will have at least two heaters. It will have powerheads or a closed loop pump, separate from the main pump, so if one or the other dies, there will still be water flow. Some things you can be more creative with backup on. For example, you don't want to invest in two chillers, but you can have your lights shut down if the temperature gets too high due to a chiller failure.
Okay rambling aside, let's say you've got your fault tolerant setup. Many aquarists then run all of that equipment off one breaker, and one GFI. The next phase of fault tolerance is to divide that critical equipment across two independantly operating GFIs, preferably served by two independant breakers. Put one heater on each. Put your return pump on one, and your powerheads or closed loop on the other. Etc... etc.. .etc.
That way, should one GFI pop, your tank will still have enough equipment running off the other to sustain life in the tank until you can attend to the matter. The tank should be set up so any of the GFI units can pop and the tank will still be okay - at least for a short term.
So, with whatsupdoc's theory, this solves the "if it happens when I'm not at home, so only that one item will shut off", but what if you have an accident while your hand is in the tank? How do you know that will be the exact one that trips? There are 3 others right?
The GFI that trips will always be the GFI serving the equipment that is faulty. If you get a shock from the water, the GFI that responds will be the one feeding the current that is ultimately going through you.

 

[t316]

Thanks...good explanation SCSI. I think I'll start at the panel box and work backwards. At the moment, I just have too much around the tank.