Growth on my rock...what is it?

milomlo

Active Member
Ok I know the pics aren't that great at all. But these are the best I have been able to get so far. It looks like a feather duster?? Is that right?

One of the rocks (the close up of the rock) looks like some sort of white knot. Anyone have an idea or is it just part of the rock?
Also my tank is cycling has been since Saturday night.
The water tests like this:
Nitrate 10
PH 8.0
Nitrite 0
Ammonia .50
Alk 180
Temp 82/83 (top line of safe zone)
Should I do a partial water change yet or at least top off?


 

pfitz44

Active Member
looks like a feather duster to me.... wait till your ammonia is down to 0 before you do your water chagne
 

bang guy

Moderator
I can't tell if it's a duster or Aiptasia. Are there tentacles or feathery structures?
If Ammonia climbs above 0.5 do a 10% water change. You can do one now to be safe.
Topoff daily to replace evaporated water and maintain salinity.
 

milomlo

Active Member
They look feathery to me. It is so small though. Wow I am so excited the I could have a feather duster :)
On other threads I have read that my ammonia should spike really high. What if it stays like this and then slowly goes down? Does that mean my cycle would be over or does the Ammonia need to go higher than that? I did just do a top off so thanks for that information
 

bang guy

Moderator
Ammonia is a deadly toxin. If it spikes really high then it will kill off many of the animals in your live rock. These animals (mostly microscopic) keep the rock healthy. If these animals die due to ammonia poisoning then what you're left with is rock full of dead animals that will rot and cause PH and nutrient problems later on. Hair algae LOVES these types of rocks because they provide a constant source of nutrients.
The idea of a cycle is to grow the population of bacteria and other organisms that will provide a stable environment. High Ammonia levels do not help create a stable environment, it will severly limit the diversity from your expensive live rock.
 

stanlalee

Active Member
how long has the tank been up and running? If it hasn't fully cycled you shouldn't perform any water changes. There isn't anyway around the ammonia spike during the cycling process. Many of the living organism's may die on the live rock but the beneficial bacteria which break down the ammonia (which is the main benefit of live rock) wont. Beneficial algae and some organism's may grow back (which is no different then curing live rock: many organism's die off and cause an ammonia spike but after curing many life forms survive or revive). You may lose whatever that is but so goes the process. IF you dont want to lose it put it in a $10 5-10 gallon tank with airstone or some form of cheap circulation and keep doing water changes in that tank until the main tank has completely cycled. I can tell you from experience if you plan on having a clean up crew (crustasceans) those little growths like that tend not to last very long on liverock when they are done with it anyway.
 

milomlo

Active Member
Well it has only been up and running since Saturday. So I know there is a ways to go. I just thought that the sign of life was promising. But if the clean up crew is going to kill it that sucks. I was hoping not to have to buy a feather duster...LOL
I was just curious about it. I had read that the ammonia is suppose to go off the charts, but even when I cycled my 2.5 QT it never did. The ammonia never went above 20 and it onlyl took about 2 week (probably because the tank was so small). After the cycle does the PH have to be at 8.4 to put fish in?
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
the ph should be between 8.1 and 8.4.
I completely disagree with stan. You should do water changes to keep your ammonia low. What's the point of buying LR if all of your hitchikers and organisms on it are going to die??? That's just a waste of money. If the only point of LR was for the dentrifying bacteria, then you can just buy normal rock and put it in your tank. People buy LR because of the other stuff that comes with it. IF you're going to let your ammonia get out of control, and all of your hitchikers are going to die because of that, it's pointless to buy LR.
Fenner actually states that you should do water changes during cycling to keep your ammonia at or below 1.0. One reason is because anything higher will most likely kill your hitchikers on your LR. He also says that it is actually counterproductive to let your ammonia get too high. Once your ammonia reaches a certain point, it will actually inhibit the growth of the dentrifying bacteria. Doing water changes during cycling doesn't mess with the cycle at all, but it will help keep your hitchikers alive.
 

stanlalee

Active Member
this is just a guess but I'd assume how high your ammonia spikes is directly related to the amount of dead organic matter braking down during the cycling process. I never get huge ammonia spikes during cycling either. For my 30 gallon this time I used one small damsel and one small clown (about 1" each) to cycle my tank ( I usually use just one small damsel). Hell the fish never even showed any signs of stress and I have them (and others) nearly a year later. If the beneficial bacteria is growing faster than the waste is accumulating and breaking down you probably wont have a big spike. Also you having cured live rock it already has a build up of beneficial bacteria helping keep your ammonia from a large spike.
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
yep. So you can't say "you don't need to do any water changes", because we don't know how big the ammonia will spike in that instance. Sounds like yours didn't get up all that high. When i first cycled my tank, i did it with 90 lbs of LR, and not one hitchiker survived.
. i wish i would've known to keep my ammonia down back then...
 

stanlalee

Active Member
Originally Posted by jdragunas
the ph should be between 8.1 and 8.4.
I completely disagree with stan. You should do water changes to keep your ammonia low. What's the point of buying LR if all of your hitchikers and organisms on it are going to die??? That's just a waste of money. If the only point of LR was for the dentrifying bacteria, then you can just buy normal rock and put it in your tank. People buy LR because of the other stuff that comes with it. IF you're going to let your ammonia get out of control, and all of your hitchikers are going to die because of that, it's pointless to buy LR.
Fenner actually states that you should do water changes during cycling to keep your ammonia at or below 1.0. One reason is because anything higher will most likely kill your hitchikers on your LR. He also says that it is actually counterproductive to let your ammonia get too high. Once your ammonia reaches a certain point, it will actually inhibit the growth of the dentrifying bacteria. Doing water changes during cycling doesn't mess with the cycle at all, but it will help keep your hitchikers alive.

well I dont disagree that cycling a tank with LR will likely kill the hitch hikers (I didn't put LR in my tank until it cycled) but IF you are cycling your tank using LR then you should expect some hitch hikers to die. I've searched this a bit over the web and there are those who agree and those who dont about changing water during the cycling process. some say changing the water during the cycling process can lead to new tank sydrome (ammonia spikes after a tank has already cycled). I only agree that it isn't neccessary because I have never had to in over 10yrs of saltwater tanking. The point of buying liverock is to KEEP your ammonia from spiking in the 1rst place (not that hitch hikers arent cool and make for interesting diversity). dead/base rock doesn't have denitrifying bacteria or beneficial algae already present and usually less surface area for it to grow on and in. Live rock is used as a form of biological filtration, the hitch hikers growing out of it and crawling around arent a part of that (although they may be part of the clean up and a food source) so it will still do its job without them. Also most LR has already been expose to some scale of an ammonia spike during the curing process. its not considered cured until die off has siezed and ammonia levels fall to zero. From what I understand this applies to all rock thats been out of water for any significant time (which is often during time from collection to final destination).
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
you don't need LR for the dentrifying bacteria... it will grow on anything in your tank... I'm just saying there's no need to allow the ammonia to spike to deadly levels when it will work just the same if you do water changes to keep the ammonia down below 1.0.
New tank syndrome is a result of not having enough dentrifying bacteria (because there's not enough surface area for it to grow on)... not because you didn't allow your ammonia to spike off the charts...
 

stanlalee

Active Member
Originally Posted by jdragunas
New tank syndrome is a result of not having enough dentrifying bacteria (because there's not enough surface area for it to grow on)... not because you didn't allow your ammonia to spike off the charts...
arent they one in the same (not enough bacteria=ammonia spike)? and isn't live rock desirable because of its porous structure allows for great surface area for it to grow on? Just giving you a hard time, I see what your saying
 

milomlo

Active Member
Wow guys! Great thread. Thanks for all the information. Hopefully my hitch hickers will not die and I will try and keep my ammonia levels down. Can I ask though, why are my nitrites at 0, shouldn't they be registering something since I still have high ammonia?
 

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by milomlo
Wow guys! Great thread. Thanks for all the information. Hopefully my hitch hickers will not die and I will try and keep my ammonia levels down. Can I ask though, why are my nitrites at 0, shouldn't they be registering something since I still have high ammonia?
The bacteria population that consumes Nitrite and produces Nitrate can reproduce rapidly. If you keep your Ammonia level low they will convert the Nitrite as fast as the Ammonia consuming bacteria can produce it. In a tank cycled with live rock you probably won't see a Nitrite spike unless ammonia climbs very high (high ammonia kills the bacteria that consume Nitrite). Nitrite is harmless at moderate levels so I don't even bother testing for it.
If you follow the old way of cycling where high ammonia levels are encouraged then you'll see a Nitrite spike shortly after the Ammonia spike.
 

milomlo

Active Member
Ok then it sounds like my cycle is going correctly then. That is great! Thanks so much for all your help.
 
J

jdragunas

Guest
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
arent they one in the same (not enough bacteria=ammonia spike)? and isn't live rock desirable because of its porous structure allows for great surface area for it to grow on? Just giving you a hard time, I see what your saying

not enough bacteria only = ammonia spike when you introduce a lot of ammonia to it. Adding one fish isn't going to create an ammonia spike in the tank that's been cycled.
And you don't necessarily have to have live rock for the porous structure... you can use so many different things, you can even create your own "dead" rock out of cement and crushed coral and other stuff which will be just as porous, and much cheaper. People pay so much $$$ for LR because it has other things besides that beneficial bacteria.
 

pasafire

Member
Originally Posted by milomlo
Wow guys! Great thread. Thanks for all the information. Hopefully my hitch hickers will not die and I will try and keep my ammonia levels down. Can I ask though, why are my nitrites at 0, shouldn't they be registering something since I still have high ammonia?

Hey there, you posted on one of my threads and I just thought I would ask for an update on yours here a little bit down the road. Is ammonia at 0 finally? Is your feather duster still there ???? Just keep in mind they are mini ones and really cool but they don't get bigger like the really cool ones HA! But this sight has some big ones for pretty cheap!!! I got one in my other tank but something ate it
Let us know how its going!!!!
 
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