Hair Algae Problem, What Should I do to Fix?

yannifish

Active Member
I have had a hair algae problem for a while now, and yesterday decided I was sick and tired of it.
So, I have a few questions.
Upon testing my water today, I noticed my nitrates are high (20ppm), but not scary high. Is 20ppm high enough to cause a hair algae problem?
I also tested my phosphates, but the test kit is over a year old, and I'm not sure I trust the results, which indicated around 0.5 ppm.
So, to fix the nitrates I got saltwater mixing another water change.
What else should I do? Would a phosphate reactor help?
I just don't want to spend the money on one if it isn't going to help. I know they aren't that much, but still.
If I do need a phosphate reactor, any recommendations on what kind of media I should get?
Thanks!
 

meowzer

Moderator
20 trates is not too high, I'd be more worried about the phosphates...do larger more frequent water changes
what do you use for water...tap or ro?
what do you feed? If you feed frozen, rinse the food first, and depending on how much, you may have to cut down on how much you feed
what's in your tank as far as fish and cuc? Turbo snails are great at HA, as are emeralds, as are your finger tips..LOL...Believe me....I did a lot of manual picking when I had it....
also what type of lighting do you have? and how long do you run them for?
Do you run a protein skimmer?
 

yannifish

Active Member
I mean, I don't like 20 ppms for my nitrates, but it isn't a problem yet.
I use tap, unfortunately. However, I am on a well, and don't have to worry about chlorine.
I've never had my water tested. And I've always algae problems. So, I've probably found the problem.
I feed both flake a frozen, but I feed very lightly. I don't think this is a problem. My clowns clean up everything.
I do have a shortage of snails, so I'll get harvesting by hand.
I just have standard output fluorescent, running about twelve hours a day.
I do have a protein skimmer (Reef Octopus 4), but it isn't pulling much skimmate, as is being discussed in another thread of mine.
So I was thinking, since phosphates are the most likely cause, could I get a phosphate reactor to clean things up in the tank, and run it on mixing saltwater to hopefully remove the phosphates at the source?
 

meowzer

Moderator
I have a phosphate reactor 550 for my 225G....and it has definitely helped with the phosphates....so yeah, getting one can help you
also get some nassarius snails to stir the sand....I would ditch the flake food....maybe use it for an evening snack 1x a week
You might really want to think about getting an rodi unit.....well worth the investment IMO
 

scott t

Active Member
I know that when I used to live out in the country and I had well water, I had it tested before I had a water softner put in and there were many trace minerals in it.. The 2 biggest that were in mine were IRON and COPPER. I would have to agree here with Meowzer to get a RO/DI unit or buy your water from the store...
 

meowzer

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott T http:///forum/thread/381962/hair-algae-problem-what-should-i-do-to-fix#post_3330713
I know that when I used to live out in the country and I had well water, I had it tested before I had a water softner put in and there were many trace minerals in it.. The 2 biggest that were in mine were IRON and COPPER. I would have to agree here with Meowzer to get a RO/DI unit or buy your water from the store...

seriously though.....I use to have well water.....we had a filter system on it that was supposed to last 6 months....a lot of times it didn't last a week...
I think the paper mill had "something" leaching into our water
quite a few people around here came down with cancer....I paid A LOT OF MONEY
to have a water line brought to my house......probably why I am still alive LOL
 

scott t

Active Member
Yeah that is why I had one put in the house that I used to live in out in the country. I live with a lot of Farm fields around me and you just never know what they were using on them. You can never know what is leaching into the ground water that you used, especially if y you don't have a filtering system in place.
 

yannifish

Active Member
Well an RO system isn't an option currently, I'm sorry to say. However, the area I live in is known for excellent, clean well water. I've never had issues using the water with any of my systems, fresh or salt.
Meowzer, I do have Nassarius snails, as well as Cerith, so my sand bed stays pretty stirred up. I also make sure I have water movement across my entire sand bed, to keep sediment from collecting.
So a phosphate reactor should make a big difference? What phosphate media should I use?
I was looking at some Kent Marine Posphate Sponge (I think that's what it was called), will this work in a reactor?
 

meowzer

Moderator
Right now I am using GFO from BRS....and have have good results.....the media is not cheap...but it's good
I also have heard that rowaphos is decent too....and Phosban,...but I have no experience with them
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
if you have a sump a turf scrubber = easier, cheaper and never have to replace media = 0 phospahtes
and you can make it yourself :)
I think I'm in love with my scrubber... is that wrong?
 

jaxfishgirl

Active Member
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/forum/thread/352727/quick-simple-turf-scrubber
I am thinking about making one myself
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
I'm not going to bore you all with my scrubber stories again, but it does work, and it works really really well as long as you clean it once a week (takes 5 minutes) religiously.
If you don't think you will be eager enough to clean it once a week every week, then its not for you.
turf scrubber . net has every bit of information you need about building one. make sure you floow the guidlines for the screen size, the water flow and the amount of light and you will pull all the phos and trates out of your system like you wouldnt believe.
 

yannifish

Active Member
I kind of like the idea. Natural, cheap, easy.
I think I might try it. Cleaning it once a week is simple. I'll have to re-plumb my drain pipe, but that's not a problem.
What size light do you use? On both sides, or just one?
How long was it before you started noticing differences in algae levels in your DT?
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
the light depends on the amount of flow and the size fo the screen, the screen depends on the water volume and the flow depends on the size fo the screen.
2 sided is always best although aquaknight and others have had success with the one sided version.
the perameters are all on the scrubber website.
I think its 1 square inch of screen per gallon of tank water
35 gph per inch/width of screen and 1/2 watt per gallon.
Don't quote me ont hat but thats whats sticking in my mind
My flow was lacking at first so it took me 2 months to completley get rid of the algae in my tank, I had it pretty bad.
once I got the right flow and light my scrubber took off and has had 0 phos and 0 trates ever since.
 

yannifish

Active Member
I'm picking up the parts for one tomorrow. I'm going to plumb mine into my drain pipe, soni don't have to get a pump.
Can you give me some details as to how to build one? Mainly just connecting the screen to the pipe. I'll do some research, but any input you have would be much appreciated as well.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
there are loads of varieties, but on mine I made my screen a total of 12" wide and I made the slot in the pipe 10" wide, then at the top I notched an inch out of each corner so it's 10" wide at the top of the screen. then I just slipped the screen up inside the pipe until it stops (make sure the screen and the slot are exactly the same width) and poked little holes on both ends right below where I notched and run little zip ties through that and around the pipe.
Mine is actually made entirely of PVC with two 90 degree elbows at the top left and top right corners facing down to the legs that go all the way down to a "T" which becomes the feet with a couple of little extension sections of PVC and caps on teh ends.
None of mine is glued so I can transform it hwever I want. The pieces fit together plenty tight enough that the low pressure inside doesnt leak.
To clean I shut the pump off, disconnect the top left and top right elbows from the top bar that has the notch cut in it "spray bar"
take it to the sink and run fresh warmed tap water over it and scrape the algea off with my nails (you can use anything you want, I don't mind the feels so nails work well)
the only problem I found with using yuor overflow and not a pump is to do the weekly cleaning you had to shut down your overflow. which I thoguth would be a bit of a pain, so I decided to go with a pump instead. Also, if you decide to go with just the overflow make sure to make an extension on your spray bar with an open end facing up in case something were to happen and the screen got completley clogged with alage that the wate could still get out this overflow and not back up your system. I've seen these on several builds, everyone says you never need them, but its a good saftey precaution.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Here are some of the most important parts of the Algae scrubber lsited from the FAQ on the website. Be sure to follow the exact guidelines or you will likley have issues. those who got inventive seemed to be the ones that didnt have that much success, those who kept to the guidlines seem to have nothing but praise for the systems....
Scrubber Quick Guideline:
0.5 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon MINIMUM [0.13 watts per liter].
1.0 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon for HIGH filtering [0.26 watts per liter].
1.0 square inches of screen per gallon, with bulbs on BOTH sides (10 x 10 = 100 square inches = 100 gal)
[1.64 square cm per liter]
2.0 square inches of screen per gallon, if vertical but lit on just ONE side. [3.28 square cm per liter]
4.0 square inches of screen per gallon, if HORIZONTAL [6.56 square cm per liter].
1.5 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon if HORIZONTAL [0.4 watts per liter].
18 hours of lights ON, and 6 hours of lights OFF, each day.
Flow is 24 hours, and is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen, EVEN IF one sided [60 lph per cm].
Very rough screen made of roughed-up-like-a-cactus plastic canvas.
Clean algae off of screen every SEVEN (7) days NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK.
Q: How big of a scrubber do I need?
A: Start with one square inch (6.25 square cm) of screen, with a light on both sides, for every U.S. gallon (3.8 liters) of water in your display tank. Thus, a 100 gallon display tank would need a screen 10 inches by 10 inches (100 square inches), with a light on both sides. If you can only put a light on one side, then you need to double the screen area, and also double the lighting on the one side. You don't need to include the volume of the sump, unless it also has livestock in it that you feed.
: What's the most important thing that I need to pay attention to when building my scrubber?
A: The screen. It needs to be ROUGH.
Q: Do I need to "seed" my screen with algae to get it to grow?
A: No. All screens will grow by themselves. Seeding (rubbing algae into the screen to get it started faster) is no longer recommended because is just does not speed things up enough, and it just puts extra waste into the water. If you want your screen to grow faster, then make it rougher by scraping a hole-saw (not in a drill) across the plastic canvas. The screen should feel like a cactus, and be too rough to rub on your face. The rougher it is, the faster algae will grow on it, and the longer the algae will stick to it.
Q: How do you clean a scrubber screen?
A: You clean it every 7 days, by removing the screen from the scrubber, taking it to your sink, and running tap water over it while removing the algae. Don't remove all the algae, however, because you want it to grow back quickly, and also because you need some algae to continue to do the filtering. So leave a small layer of algae on the screen. The rougher your screen is, the more algae will remain, and thus the faster the filtering will start again. If you have two separate screens, then you can clean one completely down to the plastic, since the other one continues the filtering. Also, if your screen is two layers (like a sandwich), you can also clean down to the plastic, since algae will remain between the two layers.
Q: How often do you clean it?
A: Once a week (7 days), NO MATTER WHAT. This is probably the biggest hassle with scrubbers, and when it is not followed, it's THE biggest reason why a scrubber is not working as good as it should. When the algae gets too thick on the screen, it blocks the light from getting to the bottom layers. Thus the bottom layers die, and they put nitrate and phosphate and cloudiness into the water. Weekly cleaning eliminates this. If your screen is smaller than it should be, or if your nutrients are very high in your tank, your screen might fill up and need cleaning in just a few days. This is ESPECIALLY true if the screen is growing dark, oil-like algae. This type of algae will never get thick because it blocks out all the light, so it must be cleaned as soon as it grows. After the nutrients in your water come down, the dark algae will grow less, and the green algae will grow more (dark algae is caused by very high nutrients.)
Q: What is the best type of scrubber to build?
A: For most new aquarists, simple and cheap scrubbers are best. Simple configurations are just a screen hanging in a sump. For intermediate aquarists, compact size and better performance might be wanted. These configurations might be custom built acrylic units, with very bright lighting. For advanced aquarists, compactness is usually not a concern, but strong performance, and redundancy of lighting and flow, is. So a dual or triple screen, dual-pump, multiple-light configuration would be best.
Q: Is a vertical or horizontal screen better?
A: Vertical is better. It is proven, and it is the smallest and most powerful for a given amount of space, flow, and lighting. Horizontal is OK if you want to experiment, but if you absolutely must have results, go vertical. The biggest operational problem with horizontal is that as algae builds up on the screen, it blocks flow to areas downstream from it. This is because the water is not flowing very fast, and it cannot "jump" up and over the new growth. So the more algae, the more blockage, and thus it is self-limiting unless you have a LOT of flow. With a vertical, however, the flow is rapid and goes right over new growth. This is the reason that a horizontal needs 4X the screen area, so it can make up for less performance.
Q: What kind of light do I need?
A: Experience has shown that at least a 23 Watt Compact Fluorescent (CFL) bulb, of the 2700K or 3000K (“warm” or “soft”) color, works best. One on each side of the screen, about 4" from the screen, and pointed to the middle of the screen. And note that 23W is "at least", unless it's for a nano. These CFL lights have also shown to only last about three months before their power drops off, even though they "look" fine. T5HO bulbs have also shown tremendous scrubber growth, although they are more difficult to design and build; their spread of light from side to side is superior to CFL bulbs. There is an upper limit to CFL bulb size; CFL bulbs in the 45 watt range are at the top, whereas anything higher than that will tend to “cook” the screen in one spot. If you must have more than 45 watts per side, use two smaller bulbs instead. The lighting just needs to be spread out more evenly, and not so concentrated in one spot. If you use CFL bulbs and they are not floodlights (which have built-in reflectors), be sure to get "CFL reflectors" so you can reflect the light to the screen.
Q: What if I can't fit a light on both sides of the screen?
A: Then double the screen size, and double the lights on the one side. Doubling the screen size without doubling the lighting, however, does no good.
Q: I can’t find the “K” numbers on the bulbs I want to buy; Can I use "soft" or "warm" bulbs?
A: Yes, the “soft or “warm” bulbs, which are the most popular types for the typical home, are about 2700 or 3000K and they work the best. Even “full spectrum” or “daylight” bulbs are OK. The ones which don’t work the best are “cool” bulbs. But they still work.
Q: How long do I wait before replacing the bulbs?
A: CFL bulbs should be replaced every 3 months. T5HO/PC bulbs every 3 to 6 months. Do NOT wait longer just because "they still look fine". You'll see, after you replace them, how dim they really were compared to the new ones. Leaving old bulbs in a scrubber can completely stop it from working.
Q: How near do the lights need to be to the screen?
A: CFL bulbs should be within 4 inches (10cm) from the middle of the screen. If you cannot get the light nearer than 6 inches (15cm), then do some reconfiguration. Don't build a scrubber at all if you can't get the light to within 6 inches (15cm). T5HO bulbs can be within 1 inch (2.5 cm) of the screen, but 2 inches is OK. Algae needs LIGHT POWER to grow.
Q: What's the best wattage/power bulb to use?
A: Generally, up to 45 watt CFL bulbs. The more powerful the light, the faster your nitrate, phosphate, and nuisance algae will be reduced, and the lower they will stay. The bare minimum for any setup is a 23W CFL Floodlight, 2700K or 3000K. A maximum might be a 45 watt bulb, but it’s better to have multiple smaller bulbs in order to reach your recommended total wattage. The ultimate are T5HO bulbs, which spread the light out so that the most light-power can be placed near the algae, without "burning" it in one spot like a CFL.
Q: I have some extra lights that I was using for my display; can I use those?
A: Only if they are 6500K or less. 10K is problematic. 14K and 20K will not work at all. And the power on each bulb still needs to be at least 23W, on each side of the screen.
Q: What's the best bulb color/spectrum?
A: The best would seem to be the "plant grow" spectrum. These bulbs looks "pink", and don't seem bright at all. But 2700K and 3000K seem to grow even better. No special testing has been done for this, however.
Q: How long should I leave the lights on?
A: 18 hours. Never run the lights 24/7, because the algae will "burn" and stop growing near the light. Algae needs rest. Amazingly, algae does most of it’s filtering in the dark; it just grows bigger in the light.
Q: How much flow do I need on the screen?
A: At least 35 U.S. gallons per hour (gph) (133 lph) for every inch (2.5cm) of width of the screen. Thus a screen one inch wide would need at least 35 gph, and a screen two inches wide would need at least 70 gph, etc. More is even better. Less flow means less performance, and parts of the screen may go dry. And if you are making a horizontal screen, you then want ALL the flow on the one (top) side. This is because fast flow is critical, and horizontal screens do not have fast flow. So you make up for this by putting all the flow from a two-sided screen onto the one top side of a one-sided screen. And in all screens, flow will be limited by the roughness of the screen, because a smooth screen will let go of algae sooner than a rough screen will.
Scrubber Materials:
Q: What's the best material to make the screen out of?
A: The overall best material is "plastic canvas", which can be found at any craft/sewing store, and online at hundreds of places. It's cheap, strong, and does not wear out. However it's smooth and it's made out of non-stick plastic, so to make it work the best, you need to rough it up using a hole-saw in your hand (not in a drill) so that it feels like a cactus. The rougher it is, the quicker the algae will grow, and the thicker it will grow without falling off, and thus the less nitrate, phosphate, and nuisance algae you will have in your display. Just remember that the more algae that can grow/stick on the screen, the less algae you will have in your tank.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
This one I found to be pretty cool, he has the water drain down into the a trough instead of directly out of the spray bar, so he takes the trough out to clean it and the spray bar can keep running.


 
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