hair algae *warning long*

[j-cal]

ok i may have my hair algae contained for the time being. When i transferred the contents of my 55 over to my 125 i took eat rock and a toothbrush and scrubbed it all off in a 29 gallon filled with only salt water so that the spores could fall off, then i did a dip in freshwater to help rinse more off. It worked great on the rocks that i tried it on, but i have 2 with some ricordia that i was worried id harm the rics. could i do the same thing with these rocks. they arent bad again yet, but i dont want a repeat performance. I have about 30 turbo snail, 12 cerinth and 40 or so blue legged hermits. I knwo the blue legs can be aggressive but i didint know this when i got my original 10, then i couldnt find them all to remove them, so Ive just decided to use them rather than scarlets. i think they get the occaissional cerinth snail, but hey i work at a LFS they are really cheap for me. I also have a lawnmower blenny. any other good algae eating types? im considering trying a tang but i hear that they sometimes make more waste to fuel algae then they eat. I know someone is gonna get on and ask if i use RO/test for phosphates. I've used the tester at work and my tap contains 0 phosphates, and id rather use the tap water. After reading Joyce wilkerson's clownfishes book she said anemones that lived longest for people were kept in tanks that used tap rather than R/O and ive had my anemone for a little over a year now and its my number 1 priority.
So should i try more scrubbing and manual removal or is there some eater that im missing? Ive heard that the soft spined tuxedo/royal urchins do a great job of eating hair algae and are reef safe. maybe i should try one? My only corals are zoos and shrooms. it shouldnt eat those or plow em right?

 

[nas19320]

Something is fueling the algae and until you get that under control you will likely continue to have an algae problem. Have you tested for Nitrates in your tap water or silicates? Overfeeding, bad lighting, heavy bioload are just a few other possibilities.

 

[overanalyzer]

Well I'v e read Wilkerson's book several tiems and the idea of hte anemone in tap water is that it needs a nutrient rich environment (so does algea). Your tap water is contributing to the nurtient load in your tank, thus contributing to your hair algea.
Your scrubbing technique would work on your ricordea rocks (they are pretyt tough little coralmorphs) and as long as you do a short FW dip it should not kill the coral ....short like 15-30 seconds or so
You work @ an LFS? I would run a full battery of water tests - silicates, iron, copper, phosphates, trites, trates, strontium, mag, calcium,alk, ph, iodine .... see if any are out of whack. Also see if you can test for florine or floride - both of which are most likely in your tap water.
I'd also think a huge water change with RO/DI water would help (you can buy some then go back to tap water).
The urchin will plow through the zoo's and shrooms and may end up with them growin on him. Urchins also like to eat calcerous algeas like halimeda and corraline algea.
Lettuce Nudi-branches eat hari algea - bryopsis specifically I believe. You might check into them ....
Keep plucking and scrubbing and good luck. I would point to the nutrient levels in your tank being high as your main cause - whether it is over feeding or tap water or dead stuff not getting consumed fast enough - I think that is where you need to focus!

 

[beaslbob]

jcal: as you already know algae requires nutrients (ammonia, nitrate, phosphate), carbon dioxide and light. Your algae is feeding off of nitrates and/or phosphates. Removing the algae will increase the nutrients and carbon dioxide in you system. It would be much better to establish or increase the plant life you desire than just remove the existing plant life. That way the plants are still working and the uglies will be starved.

 

[j-cal]

yea i figured as much. It HAS to be from the tap water tho. I feed my tank maybe 1-2 times a week, and all i have are 2 clowns which actively hunt my nearly infinite supply of pods. im gonna keep scrubbing i guess since im really worried about that anemone biting it if i switch. My nitrates/nitrates/ammonia/copper all read 0. I havent tested for anything else, but as a precautionary ive been running a nitrates and phosphate sponge in my filters. My bio load is really small for a 125 imo. It consists of 2 clownfish and Lawn mower blenny, some crabs, some snails and some softies, but its not even close to full. The load seemed small even when it was in my 55.
What are the "normal" quantities that i SHOULD have in my tank as cleanup crew. Assuming that im only using blue leg hermits, nassarius snails (i dont have these yet), cerinth snails, turbo snails? anything else im missing on the cleanup crew?
If this is a problem that i have to deal with forever so long as i use tap water so be it im scared to change and wreck my precious anemone

 

[j-cal]

Ive read posts where youve recommended putting macros in the display tank, but if i do that as a way to control alage, how do i control them? I dont mind macros cuz they dont seem to grow inbetween zoos and shrooms and look awful, but if i dont have any hard corals, and i only plan on zoos and mushrooms, maybe some other softies down the road but i doubt it, will the plants grow into the corals much?

 

[jscarb2]

i had a huge hair outbreak in my 180 from some rock i added to what i already had.i added 2 queen conchs and they eat it like crazy.the turbos just ate a path to the glass.

 

[beaslbob]

My only problem is getting and substaining the macros to grow in my display. But then my tang, coral beauty and anemone crabs eat them.
After the nutrients are under control the growth rate of the macros slows down to almost nothing. Plus all you have to do is reach in and pull some out each week. Finally, you could set up some type of in tank refugium where a portion of the tank is for plants and protected from the rest. The back portion of the display would be a good choice.
So there are easy to implement ways to solve all the in display plant "problems". But as you have found out, you will either have plant life you desire or plants you don't desire(hair). If you get rid of all plant life most likely nothing could survive in the the tank at all. Unless you do 100% daily water changes just to keep up with the waste products.

 

[overanalyzer]

Originally posted by J-Cal
Ive read posts where youve recommended putting macros in the display tank, but if i do that as a way to control alage, how do i control them? I dont mind macros cuz they dont seem to grow inbetween zoos and shrooms and look awful, but if i dont have any hard corals, and i only plan on zoos and mushrooms, maybe some other softies down the road but i doubt it, will the plants grow into the corals much?
I've read some posts of people who have had to get rid of LR because the macro's entrench themsleves in LR. Macro Algeas are still an algea so they will try and out-compete surrounding life forms - including zoo's and shrooms. If you are going to use Macros I would suggest a refugium. Or find a corner of hte tank and just manually prune them. Or use Halimeda which is slower growing Calcerous macro that does not spread very fast. It will - like almost all macro's - take root in your LR though!
Two Issues I see for you are:
1. You seem to want a nutrient rich environment for your Anemone - using Macro's would decrease the nutrients going to the anemone.
2. You have source water and you are adding nutrients but aren't sure what they are.
What else are you running for filtration??
You could always use just RO water instead of RO/DI. the RO/DI turns out the pure water - RO removes the many of hte nutrients and is not as pure.
Bob - removing all plant life will lead to the death of his tank?? WHAT!?!??!?! How can you say: "If you get rid of all plant life most likely nothing could survive in the the tank at all. Unless you do 100% daily water changes just to keep up with the waste products." That is just ludicrous!! There are many many reefers out there with 0 plant life, 0 algea and thriving reefs .... :scared:

 

[j-cal]

well, if the hair algae is removing nutrients and the macros are too would there really be a huge difference in what my anemone actually gets? I also plan on getting a dwarf angel in the near future. I think it would benefit from the macros. I am going to try a ball of macros in a corner of the tank with no rock and see what happens in the short term.
For filtration i have a 220 magnum and a 350 magnum canister. I alternate nitrate and phophate sponges and carbon. I have a few PH to move water around to my live rock filtration. I have about 50 lbs of live rock, 30-40 lbs of live base rock and 50 lbs of not live yet bace rock. I know they suck but i am running a seaclone 150 and a prism skimmer. They worked well together for my 55, but ill have to see how they do with this tank. additionally i have a 5 inch DSB with about 75-100 lbs from my old 55 and 200 lbs of new southdown sand.
Since my anemone has been doing so well fo so long, would a gradual change to RO water be dreadful? It seems like at my shop's anemones do well for people or die in the short term (under a week), which has led me to think about perhaps a large part of anemone failure do to poor shipping techniques :-/ would a larger clean up crew help?

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by overanalyzer
...
Bob - removing all plant life will lead to the death of his tank?? WHAT!?!??!?! How can you say: "If you get rid of all plant life most likely nothing could survive in the the tank at all. Unless you do 100% daily water changes just to keep up with the waste products." That is just ludicrous!! There are many many reefers out there with 0 plant life, 0 algea and thriving reefs .... :scared:
First of all, my statement does allow for what you say. "most likely nothing could survive in the the tank at all".
Second none of the pictures of reefs I have seen on this board or anywhere else are completely devoid of plant life. All have corraline, the vast majority are harvesting pounds of macros each month, and more than a few have such things as money plants or various marine grasses in the display. The complete elimination of all plant life and the continued elimination of plant life is not only impossible, futile and counter productive but insures a crashed system. The only way to totally eliminate plant life with livestock is to keep the system in total darkness. After all a single ammonium ion, carbon dioxide and light will result in algae.

 

[j-cal]

i dont have access to a sump, so what would be the best hang on skimmer? There are some normal looking non prism skimmers by red sea that i can get form my petshop, but i dont know if they are better than seaclones. My skimmer hasnt been working as well since this bloom because the algae clogs the intake sponge rapidly. Now that my tank is largely without hairalgae, my skimmers are working infintely better. I only have it on 2 large rocks right now whereas with my 55 is was EVERYWHERE. i just wanna nip it in the bud before it gets bad again. I have experienced little growth in algae since the move, but like i said, i wanna end it before it gets worse. If a little macro is worth a shot, im all for it. I have an RO unit that i can get working, its not laziness about getting the water, i just fear the lack of nutrients harming my anemone. u guys think that it owuld affect him in the long term?

 

[beaslbob]

My advice as always is to put the macros in. the more macros the less hair.
edit: well actually plant life. LOL. You are correct to stop it now and not wait. It will be much harder to stop it later after it becomes established.

 

[overanalyzer]

Originally posted by beaslbob
First of all, my statement does allow for what you say. "most likely nothing could survive in the the tank at all".
Second none of the pictures of reefs I have seen on this board or anywhere else are completely devoid of plant life. All have corraline, the vast majority are harvesting pounds of macros each month, and more than a few have such things as money plants or various marine grasses in the display. The complete elimination of all plant life and the continued elimination of plant life is not only impossible, futile and counter productive but insures a crashed system. The only way to totally eliminate plant life with livestock is to keep the system in total darkness. After all a single ammonium ion, carbon dioxide and light will result in algae.
ooooh forgot about the calcerious algeas (coraline) - but what about reefers who run UV sterilizers on their reefs?? a local LFS around here runs a HUGE tank with UV sterlizer and no visible macro or micro algea (or money plants or sea grasses). Nada- nothing ....
Also - not sure on a single ammonium ion,co2 and light causing an algea outbreak..... but I'll take your word for it (though I am a bit skeptical - but it sounds plausible)
I guess my point is you can run a healthy reef without Macro algeas and without microalgeas and without a refugium ..... besides in this case the guy does not want macro's pulling nutrients from his system - he wants his anemone pullingthose nutrients. Macro's will out-compete just about every organism out there - inlcuding anemones for nutrients.
Hmm as for your anemone - I would suggest changing very slowly ... very very slowly - hasty changes are not always good. PLus it will give you time to watch your anemone and make sure it is not crashing on you!

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by Kipass4130
Bob... hope this doesnt turn out like yesterday... unfortunately.. it always does... but from what you just said.....
i give you coraline as an algae.. but i dont think it should be mentioned in the same breath as other macros... well, except for maybe halimeda... at any rate.... I am all over the web and other message boards... i am always checking out the way others do things (and you guys thought i was narrowminded)... among SPS tank keepers.. there seems to be a common thread.....
what about an SPS tank with little to no coraline.... and no refugium... that runs flawlessly... year after year... how does that happen under your theories?
Understand kip. Obviously with a very low bioload it is possible to have very little plant life. that was not my point. It is simply better to use plant life regardless of the bioload. My specific point here was that the elimination of the coraline and all other plant life in the SPS tank would not allow the tank to run flawlessly. as you pointed out, there is still plant life in that tank.

 

[beaslbob]

J-cal I hope this isn't all that confusing and still answering your questions.
kip and over: thanks for your inputs. I think we are on the same wave length.