Halides Raise Elec. Bill $68.00,,,Could It Be ?

1boatnut

1boatnut

Member
Recently converted my 125 Freshwater tank to a reef.
Prior my tank had Discus with 800 watts of heaters to keep the tank at 86 degrees.It just had regular flourescent lights. Filtration basically the same,except now I have 3 Koralia's in the Reef.
The lighting for the reef is a 72" fixture with 3 175w halides & 2 96w PC.
The PC's are only on for about a hour a day & the Halides run for 8 hours.
Got my 1st electric bill since adding the lights and it went up $68.00,which is almost double my normal bill.
COULD THIS BE?
If so what are some options?
Would a electronic ballast vs a magnetic ballast give better economy?
T5's ? If so,what type of set-up would I need.
I have mainy mushrooms,acans,a cup coral.,toadstool & some Favia in there currently.
Honestly thinking about maybe just PC's and just only get the type's of corals that would be acceptable for that lighting.
OPINIONS needed !
I just can't justify that a fish tank cost me what my entire house cost for the month.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member

I run 2 X 175w MH w/ 96w actinic, a moonlight strip, I also run a skimmer, ATO, heaters, and two canister filters, 4 Koralia power heads and my electric isn't very much higher than originally paid with no fish tank at all...Could there be something wrong with your lights that they use that much electric? Is the unit used or new?
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Yeah....I have MANY tanks.....and although my electric is high...It has not changed that much....
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
By my calculations, running the halides for 8 hours a day should cost about $16 a month in electricity, assuming a rate of $0.10/kwh.
I didn't even figure the PCs... because if the halides only come out to $16, the PCs certainly wouldn't make up the balance of that cost being on for an hour a day. Post your KW/h readings for the last few months... it should be on your bill. The halides are using around 150KW/h per month.
Let me ask you this... you say your dollar amount went up, but what about the KW/h consumption? That's the number that really matters because it reflects the actual amount of electricity consumed. Electric companies change their pricing, and it also starts going up this time of year.
For comparison's sake, I estimate my tank costs about $55 a month to run, by itself. I can't believe you are complaining. My electric bill is $180 in the winter and about twice that in the summer.
As for your lights, electronic ballasts are a tad more efficient, but not enough that you'll make the cost of throwing your ballasts out and buying electronics up anytime in the next half dozen years or more. The difference is marginal. Ballasts regulate power flow through the lamp, but in doing so, they also consume some power... a 175w halide fixture doesn't burn 175w, it burns something more than that when you add ballast losses... for magnetics, this is say... 20%ish. Electronics might add a few points less... maybe 16-18%, but in the end, that's only 2-4%... not much.
T5 lamps are fluorescent technology. Halides are more efficient there I said it. They are not more efficient by much though... it's VERY close.
PCs cost so much in operational costs because the lamps have to be replaced so often and are so expensive, that you're better off running T5 if you MUST throw your halides away.
Are you running hour home's AC? It's possible that you are using extra AC power to remove the heat those lights are throwing into the room...
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Assuming for a moment that the power company is charging you 0.10 per KW/h, in order for the halides to draw enough power over 8 hours per day to cause a 68 dollar bill, they'd have to be drawing 2741 watts of electricty between the 3 of them. This would trip your circuit breaker it's so much power. Even if you had 20 amp circuit it's still 341 watts too much for it.
Lighting systems just do not fail in this way.
As I stated earlier, it's either that your electric company has changed it's rates or there is something else causing this. Have you considered purchasing a Kill-o-Watt and putting it on your lights to see exactly how much they are pulling?
 
1boatnut

1boatnut

Member

Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3260264
By my calculations, running the halides for 8 hours a day should cost about $16 a month in electricity, assuming a rate of $0.10/kwh.
I had the same estimations,unfortunately the Electric Company must have thought differently.
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3260264
I didn't even figure the PCs... because if the halides only come out to $16, the PCs certainly wouldn't make up the balance of that cost being on for an hour a day. Post your KW/h readings for the last few months... it should be on your bill. The halides are using around 150KW/h per month.
I have to get them and do a little research. Wife pays bill on-line so I don't currently have paper bills to compare.
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3260264
For comparison's sake, I estimate my tank costs about $55 a month to run, by itself. I can't believe you are complaining. My electric bill is $180 in the winter and about twice that in the summer.
That means your tank consumption is about 33% of your total usage & in the summer is about 10%.
I'm complaining (as you put it
) because my tank cost is the same as my TOTAL household usage. That calculates to 100%
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3260264
Are you running hour home's AC? It's possible that you are using extra AC power to remove the heat those lights are throwing into the room...
Doubtful.I live just outside Chicago.
Last night my heat kicked on.
 
1boatnut

1boatnut

Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3260264
As I stated earlier, it's either that your electric company has changed it's rates or there is something else causing this. Have you considered purchasing a Kill-o-Watt and putting it on your lights to see exactly how much they are pulling?
Well I plan to find out. Neighbor has a Kill-o-Watt that I'm going to borrow
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member

It could be just an estimated bill and not an actual reading. Ask the wife because you need to see that bill. If it is estimated, you can call and they will come out and do a reading then refigure your bill.
 
1boatnut

1boatnut

Member
It was actual.
Last month was estimated.
I guess they go every other month.
Still trying to figure out what the actual kwh is,as they have it broke down in every way.
Comparing last year though,for April of 09 I used 913kwh vs April 10 using 1261kwh
So does 348kwh hour sound like a average usage for the lights?
Nothing changed except the lights being added.
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1boatnut
http:///forum/post/3260340
Comparing last year though,for April of 09 I used 913kwh vs April 10 using 1261kwh
So does 348kwh hour sound like a average usage for the lights?
Nothing changed except the lights being added.
Since you are borrowing the Kill-O-Watt, it'll be simple to figure out.
You ahve a 348kw/h disrepency to reconcile. So that's about 11.5kwh/day.
That means that if your lights are running for 8 hours, they'd need to be drawing 1437 watts. That's unlikely, so plug your kill-o-watt in and see what it reads as far as a wattage reading. My guess is that there is something else afoot.... (3) 175w halides shouldn't draw this much.
I did think of a failure scenario that could cause the lights to draw excessive power, but let's see what your readings are first.
By the way... 1437 watts is about what (3) 400w halides would draw. Are you 100% positive that these are 175w fixtures?
 
1boatnut

1boatnut

Member
Ok. Here are the results and the math does not add up to me.
I plugged in the killowatt meter before I went out. When I returned the lights had maybe been on for 1.5 hours.
The readings were as follows:
kwh = 1.29
w = 615-618
amps = 5.25
Volts = 118.7
Then when I switched back to kwh it read 1.31 then,1.32 & 1.33
I left it on kwh for about 1/2 hour and when I went back to look it was reading 1.68kwh

Why the big jump?
Does it need to be hooked up for a minium of 1 hour to be accurate?
I also have a on-line Tank Electrical Calculator that shows the monthly cost of 615w 8 hours a day to be $14.41 @0.09627 charge & 149.65 KWH/Month.
That math does not add up to me.
If I use 1.29kwh x 8hrs = 10.32 kwh daily x 30 days = 309.60 KWH/Month
Wish I new how to add images without using a url ,then I could post the results from the calculator
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Okay let's break this down. It sounds like you now know that your electric company charges $0.09627 per kwh. Can we confirm that this is an actual number off your bill and not a "default value" that calculator gave you?
Let's forget the calculator. You don't realize how easy it is to do the math on your own and know what you are dealing with.
Assuming the cost you listed is the actual rate, and to make our calculations easy, let's round it up to $0.10.
We also know the number of hours. 8 hours per day * 31 days = 248 hours per month.
To convert watts to kw, simply divide by 1000. So, if your killowatt was reading 618 watts, that's 0.618kw.
For clarification, remember that kw/h is an accumulated measure. It is a function of kw of draw and time in hours. So, multiply the current draw of your lights (in killowatts [kw] not watts) times the number of hours (giving you the total kwh per month) then by the cost.
0.618 * 248 * 0.10 = $15.32
Here is where you slipped up. You said that you checked the KWH reading after 1.5 hours, but you then multiplied that by 8 hours... see where I'm going here? You took a reading that represented more than 90 minutes worth of use and used it as a figure for 60 minutes in your calculation, thus overstating the consumption.
Also, did you acutally check the killowatt's clock? Frankly, I think you only think you checked after about 1.5 hours, when in reality the exact amount of time is very important, because kwh is a function of wattage and time. KW/h is an accumulated reading, not a spontaneous one. Press the KWH button on the kill-o-watt a second time and it will show you the number of hours that the KWH reading is representing.
The meter read 1.29kwh. It also read 618 watts. 618watts is 0.618kw, which means that in an hour, a 618w load consumes 0.618kw/h.
Ergo, a device draing 0.618kw would take 2.08 hours (or roughly what... 2 hours 5 minutes or so...) to consume 1.29kwh. Divide 1.29 by 0.618 to get this result.
Because you didn't take the exact time off the kill-o-watt, we can't trust the kwh reading because that's worthless without knowing how many hours we are dealing with, but we can reverse calculate like I just did and figure out that we are likely dealing wtih 2 hours, 5 minutes.
What the kill-o-watt is telling us is that your lights are drawing 618 watts. This is really all you need to come pretty close to accurate. Knowing this, and the number of hours and the cost per kwh, you can calculate it which comes out to about $15 a month. This agrees with your online calculator and is impressively (if I do say so myself
) close to my earlier estimates.
So at this point, there still doesn't appear to be anything wrong with your lights.
The kill-o-watt does not have to be running for any length of time to be accurate. Halides will pull different amounts of current as they warm up. THIS is where the KWH reading becomes useful. What you need to do is this:
1. Reset the kill-o-watt. Make sure the timer is plugged into the kill-o-watt, not the other way around, so your kill-o-watt doesn't lose power when the timer shuts off.
2. Run your lights for a COMPLETE cycle using the timer.
3. After your lights shut off, take a kwh reading off the kill-o-watt.
4. Multiply by the number of days in a month then the cost and you have a very accurate reading of what your lights actually cost you a month. I bet you find it's close to that $14-16 figure.
 
1boatnut

1boatnut

Member
Well after I posted I realized exactly what you are saying .

I actually had the meter hooked up correctly
,and when the lights shut off the kwh showed 4.36 for the complete cycle.
If my math is correct this should equate to $13.01 monthly
Yes ?
Now I still am a little confused because I have 3 175w bulbs which is 525watts
Why is there a 618w draw ?
Next I'm going to figure out what the entire tank costs in electric per month.
Also I have to figure out why the big jump from the average bills,when the only thing new/different are the halides.
Past bills the rate was the same,just the usage is different.
Thanks for the math lesson
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
The ballasts consume current too, they are not 100% efficient.
Halide fixtures, just like fluorescent fixtures, are usually described by the wattage of their lamps, but that does not include the ballast draw. If you recall I said in an earlier post on this thread that the ballast usually adds somewhere in the neighborhood of 20% of additional power consumption.... so a 175w fixture actually draws somewhere around 210w, or (3) 175w fixtures pull about 630, which is pretty close to your actuals (again, if I do say so myself
).
I'm glad to hear your kwh cost is about 0.10. I was worried that your electric company had jacked up your rates or just always charged you a lot. 0.10 is about the national average.
One thing you may look closely for on your bill is if they are using pricing tiers. A lot of times electric companies will price the first xxx KW/h at one rate, then the next xxx KW/h at a higher rate, then the next xxxx at a very high rate. Perhaps you rolled over into a new pricing tier. It happens to me all the time with my ridiculous power bill.
Personally I'd focus more on the KW/h rather than the dollars. Look at the KW/h consumption on last month's bill versus this months and study those numbers. That's the true change in your bill is consumption. The price is something you can't do anything about since the electric company controls that.
 
1boatnut

1boatnut

Member
Also I realized the fan comes on as soon as the lights turn on,adding to the total watts.
I guess the only way I would know how many amps the fan draws is to unscrew the bulbs,but I'm sure it's low.
As far as looking at the prior months bill,the electric company estimates 1 month then does a atual the next.
So I compared this month with February as they were both actual.
February usage = 863
April usage = 1261
That is 398 kwh higher and the lights should only account for 135.16kwh
That leaves a difference of 263kwh,which is what /where I need to figure out why.
The last actual reading was for Dec. 2009 and used 1,323kwh. I can understand that because of the Christmas lights & decorations.
That means I consumed almost the same kwh now as I did in December

Also there is a slight change in the $ amount charged.
The electric company does not show on the bill how much per kwh they charge. You have to add 5-6 items on the bill to get the total amount.
I think the rat bas#@rd$ do this on purpose to keep everybody confused.
I understand what you are saying about not focusing on the $ amount,unfortunately the 2 go hand in hand
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1boatnut
http:///forum/post/3261594
Also I realized the fan comes on as soon as the lights turn on,adding to the total watts.
I guess the only way I would know how many amps the fan draws is to unscrew the bulbs,but I'm sure it's low.
Nope. The ballasts still draw some power when the lamps are not present, so this would not be accurate. Quite right though, the fan's power is low enough that it's not worth it. Besides, if everything runs through what's plugged into the kill-o-watt, you're measuring it all anyway.
That leaves a difference of 263kwh,which is what /where I need to figure out why.
Precisely.
I understand what you are saying about not focusing on the $ amount,unfortunately the 2 go hand in hand
Well my point was that the power company bills you on a standardized measure of consumption, but what they actually charge you for a certain amount can vary depending on their pricing structure. Prices can tier, or they can change month-to-month. Electricity is almost always more expensive in the summer, for example. A bill that is twice the price does not necessarily mean twice the electrical consumption.
So rather than focusing on the dollars and cents, focus on the standardized measure - the killowatt-hour.
Once you sort and resolve the discrepency in consumption, THEN sort out the discrepency in price.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I'm following you SCSInet. My old electric company charged a set price up to a certain amount of electricity consumed and then when you went over that alotted amount you jumped into another category at a higher rate and so on. My water company is actually the same way as well. Are your heaters running or anything of that nature?
 
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