Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - **SPOILERS**

[happyvac]

Originally Posted by Dmitry
Also, let's talk about Snape. He is by far the most complicated character in the books (though Rowling certainly complicated a lot of people in the last book.) Harry calls him the bravest man he ever knew. Do we agree with this? Certainly Snape's actions over all this time were heroic, but he was still a, for lack of a better term, bad man. His treatment of Harry (as well as Hermione and Ron, and anyone else not belonging to Slytherin) was reprehensible. Look at how he treated Neville, for example. What was Neville's sin as far as Snape was concerned? Snape's love and affection for Lily all these years don't entirely soften the blows. He died looking into Harry's eyes (which, let's remember, were exactly like his mother's.) Even though Snape despised James Potter and Harry was so much like his father, his - Snape's - affection for Harry's mother didn't give him all that much human decency. He was a jerk, in short. So was he the bravest man Harry ever knew? Of course, brave does not equal good.
Well, yes, considering the huge risk he took by double-crossing Voldemort and having no one else trust him. He essentially opened himself up to possible retribution from both sides of the war, and was therefore the bravest.

 

[dmitry]

Snape never appeared to be too concerned with retribution from the "good guys." He showed them all as much desdain as any real Voldemort-follower would. And he wasn't play-acting. He turned on Voldemort not because he thought Voldemort was a terrible being who would destroy humanity, but because Voldemort killed his beloved Lily. This was yet another example of Voldemort not understanding love and it coming back to bite him on his rear-end. But Snape's actions were all motivated by selfishness and self-involvement, it seems to me. His love for Lily was rather pathetic and creepy. So personally I wouldn't call his actions heroic or Snape himself brave. He didn't sacrifice himself for the good of humanity; he sacrificed himself because he thought he had nothing left to live for, he gave up. And he had nothing left to live for because he loved a woman with whom he never stood a serious chance of hooking up. He was, I think, a loser.

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by Dmitry
Snape never appeared to be too concerned with retribution from the "good guys." He showed them all as much desdain as any real Voldemort-follower would. And he wasn't play-acting. He turned on Voldemort not because he thought Voldemort was a terrible being who would destroy humanity, but because Voldemort killed his beloved Lily. This was yet another example of Voldemort not understanding love and it coming back to bite him on his rear-end. But Snape's actions were all motivated by selfishness and self-involvement, it seems to me. His love for Lily was rather pathetic and creepy. So personally I wouldn't call his actions heroic or Snape himself brave. He didn't sacrifice himself for the good of humanity; he sacrificed himself because he thought he had nothing left to live for, he gave up. And he had nothing left to live for because he loved a woman with whom he never stood a serious chance of hooking up. He was, I think, a loser.
you're a big bully

 

[happyvac]

Originally Posted by Dmitry
Snape never appeared to be too concerned with retribution from the "good guys." He showed them all as much desdain as any real Voldemort-follower would. And he wasn't play-acting. He turned on Voldemort not because he thought Voldemort was a terrible being who would destroy humanity, but because Voldemort killed his beloved Lily. This was yet another example of Voldemort not understanding love and it coming back to bite him on his rear-end. But Snape's actions were all motivated by selfishness and self-involvement, it seems to me. His love for Lily was rather pathetic and creepy. So personally I wouldn't call his actions heroic or Snape himself brave. He didn't sacrifice himself for the good of humanity; he sacrificed himself because he thought he had nothing left to live for, he gave up. And he had nothing left to live for because he loved a woman with whom he never stood a serious chance of hooking up. He was, I think, a loser.
That's cold.
At any rate, a lot of that is conjecture. Snape was such a guarded figure that we'll never know if he really wanted to defeat Voldemort for the good of the rest of the world, or to settle a personal grudge. Who's to say he didn't tell Dumbledore some things?

 

[dmitry]

You might be right, but in a way if Rowling didn't include it in her narrative - it doesn't matter. If she didn't tell us something it couldn't have been that important. And don't forget that the explanation as to Snape's motives comes directly from Snape. It isn't second-hand - it is his own thoughts that Harry watches in the Pensieve. So I think we can only assume that what Harry sees is the truth and that it was Snape's affection for Lily that led to his betrayal of Voldemort. But he certainly did not honor her memory by abusing her son physically and emotionally for 6 years at Hogwarts. It would also make sense from Rowling's thematic standpoint that it was love which led to Snape's actions. Love is something Voldemort simply does not understand. We also saw it happen with the Malfoys. Their love for their son led to their betrayal of the Dark Lord. Voldemort not only did not understand love, but greatly underestimated its consequences.