Have Pity on a Newbie To Plumbing....

[my way]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
by the way... yes it is

also happens to be the home of the famed Absolutely Fish aquarium store! :joy:
Is that the old "Aqua Tropics"? a little pricey but a great store If that is it. Also dont buy an overflow unless you get a good deal on one, we can build one real cheap. I've built quite a few of them and none have broken siphon or failed ever.

 

[squidd]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
As for the sump/fuge... I'm concerned about weight, as our new apartment will be on the second floor. The Landlord said to try and keep the tank under 70 gallons - his father built the house, and he's a contractor himself. He's got some Freshwater tanks too - so he's got a good idea how heavy these things can get.
So a 48 main and a 20 long for the sump fuge works out "just right"..

I was thinking of using my 12gallon acrylic tank and putting a baffle in to create a compartment for the fuge and a compartment for the sump.
...good idea? bad idea? any reasons why? :thinking:
The bad part on this (besides the waste of a good Nano) is 12-15 is just too small to be effective...even the 20 long would be "light"...
Tough to get a word in edge wise with you guys...

I come back and your a page down the road...

 

[mimzy]

hey MYWAY, dont know what they used to be, but their website looks AWESOME and they come very highly reccomended - I can't wait to go!!
As for a diy overflow... that sounds intriguing... what dows one use for the box? and how does the u-tube work?
...where in NJ are u, btw?
Squidd - good point..I had a feeling splitting the 12 might not leave enough surface area in the fuge.
I'll see about getting a 20L nice and cheap.

 

[cartman101]

mimzy, i'm glad your understanding it cause i'm not

. I just dont get how the sump doesn't overflow. How can i not make it overlfow. I'm not also getting how water can keep going through the U-tube, theres gotta be a pump to push the water through but there isn't! :notsure:

 

[squidd]

It's Magic...

 

[my way]

Mimzy I live in Oxford. It's all the way on the other side of the state Take 46 east to Rt 31.and you are just about there.
Cartman when the water in the display tank gets below the level where it "overflows" into the overflow box (gee I wonder where they came up with that name) it cant get into the box to go down the tube and into the sump that ate the fly I guess she'll die. Oops got a little carried away there. Does that make sense? It's really simple.

 

[my way]

Originally Posted by Squidd
It's Magic...

And Gravity!

 

[mimzy]

Originally Posted by My Way
Mimzy I live in Oxford. It's all the way on the other side of the state Take 46 east to Rt 31.and you are just about there.
Cartman when the water in the display tank gets below the level where it "overflows" into the overflow box (gee I wonder where they came up with that name) it cant get into the box to go down the tube and into the sump that ate the fly I guess she'll die. Oops got a little carried away there. Does that make sense? It's really simple.

right...but how does the u-tube suck the water from the overflow box IN the tank to the portion of the box that's OUTSIDE the tank? Is that action started by turning on the return pump?
(good questions Cartman!)

 

[my way]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
right...but how does the u-tube suck the water from the overflow box IN the tank to the portion of the box that's OUTSIDE the tank? Is that action started by turning on the return pump?
(good questions Cartman!)
Once you get the air out of the tube Gravity will pull it down. It is the same as siphoning only you are making it go through the box first, if you understand siphoning you've answered the question how does it get to the sump! And the easiest way to get the air out is to drill a hole at the very top of the U-Tube so you can fit a piece of rigid air line tubing into it so that it is FLUSH with the inner edge of the U-Tube, if it is below it too far it will leave a bubble in it. Cut a smll piece of the airline tube and crazy glue it into place(Ido this with a 90 degree bend in it). Then either run flexible airline tubing with a valve on it so you can just suck the air out. Use a piece long enough that you don't have to reach over the tank to do this, open the valve suck the air out till the bubble is gone and close the valve. You can also hook the line up to a powerhead if it is close enough and has enough power to it, and it will automatically pull any bubbles out, if you use this method I've found it works better without a valve, also make sure the line is secure. I forgot one important thing you need to have water in both the front and back boxes to be able to suck the air out, if any time during the process of sucking the air out your water level drops below the ends of the U-Tube you will break the siphon.

 

[cartman101]

Perfect sense

 

[yimmy]

I think getting an overflow box is a good idea, I got mine cuz it hides everything but mine already came in the tank, the only thing which is different with the set up which you're doing is it goes down the drain, then to your sump...then theres a ball valve...then it goes out of the return from the sump and then it returns to a split "t" and through the two nozzles at the bottom of your tank. If your confused would it help if I took a pic of the inside of my overflow?

 

[mimzy]

Originally Posted by My Way
Once you get the air out of the tube Gravity will pull it down. It is the same as siphoning only you are making it go through the box first, if you understand siphoning you've answered the question how does it get to the sump! And the easiest way to get the air out is to drill a hole at the very top of the U-Tube so you can fit a piece of rigid air line tubing into it so that it is FLUSH with the inner edge of the U-Tube, if it is below it too far it will leave a bubble in it. Cut a smll piece of the airline tube and crazy glue it into place(Ido this with a 90 degree bend in it). Then either run flexible airline tubing with a valve on it so you can just suck the air out. Use a piece long enough that you don't have to reach over the tank to do this, open the valve suck the air out till the bubble is gone and close the valve. You can also hook the line up to a powerhead if it is close enough and has enough power to it, and it will automatically pull any bubbles out, if you use this method I've found it works better without a valve, also make sure the line is secure. I forgot one important thing you need to have water in both the front and back boxes to be able to suck the air out, if any time during the process of sucking the air out your water level drops below the ends of the U-Tube you will break the siphon.
will I have to physically start the syphon on ANY overflow box I get? What long-term effects does the hole in the u-tube have on the flow of water or what happens if something back-syphons?
Also... I'm still confused about this... why do we NEED an overflow box? Why can't we stick the supply pipe directly into the tank itself?

 

[my way]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
will I have to physically start the syphon on ANY overflow box I get? What long-term effects does the hole in the u-tube have on the flow of water or what happens if something back-syphons?
Also... I'm still confused about this... why do we NEED an overflow box? Why can't we stick the supply pipe directly into the tank itself?
Once the tank is full and the air is removed from the box or the U-Tube it will start to flow. Tthe hole you drill in the overflow if done right will have no effect on it perfomance , i just do it for eaze of removing the air to get it started. I have never heard of an overflow back siphoning, it goes against the nature of gravity.The reason for the overflow is to skim the surface water. This will remove any film that builds up on the surface of the tank. This is what your protein skimmer takes out (Dissolved Organic Compounds) also known as protien. DOC is a bipolar molecule, meaning it wants to stick to both the air and the water.That is why you have bubbles in your protein skimmer. If you just ran a pipe into the tank and lost power when it started up again the siphon would not self start which would drain your sump and overflow the tank. Are you really confused yet? :thinking: :notsure:

 

[mimzy]

Originally Posted by My Way
Once the tank is full and the air is removed from the box or the U-Tube it will start to flow. the hole you drill i the overflow if done right will have no effect on it perfomance , i just do it for eaze of removing the air to get it started. I have never heard of an overflow back siphoning, it goes against the nature of gravity.The reason for the overflow is to skim the surface water. This will remove any film that builds up on the surface of the tank. This is what your protein skimmer takes out (Dissolved Organic Compounds) also known as protien. DOC is a bipolar molecule, meaning it wants to stick to both the air and the water.That is why you have bubbles in your protein skimmer. If you just ran a pipe into the tank and lost power when it started up again the siphon would not self start which would drain your sump and overflow the tank. Are you really confused yet? :thinking: :notsure:
ok, surface skimming, didn't think of that. I love the way PSs work..I was reading about them in Marine Aquarist magazine the other night...there are a bunch of diffferent kinds of them too! :jumping:
As for the siphon not self-starting after a power outtage...what's to guarantee that the u-tubes will be able to start the siphon again? isn't it true that as long as the intake of the pipe is UNDER the water, when the return pump comes back on won't the siphon just continue?

 

[my way]

No because when the power goes out the water will siphon out of the pipe untill it gets below the level of the pipe, breaking the siphon. Overflow boxes are dsigned not to do this. Would you and your husband like to meet with me,It would make this much easier for me to explain if i could draw you diagrams and such. Maybe we could meet 1/2 way for lunch one weekend or something.

 

[my way]

By the way this is quite a thread you have going here and I can tell you are getting very serious about learning because I haven't heard any Mimzyisms lately. :hilarious

 

[psusocr1]

hey MIMZY
i didnt read this whole thread but i see you need an overflow box. i forget what size your tank is but i have an overflow that came with my wet/dry that was too small for my 200 that i can get to you. it needs a fitting on the bottom for your hose but thats all. i can send you pics if your interested as im never going to be able to use it. it also need a u-tube cause i stepped on it and cracked it. shoot me an email psusocr@aol.com

 

[my way]

Originally Posted by jcrim
I'd recommend one on the return tube but not under the overflow. I don't think you can regulate the flow from your overflow because it would just back up into the overflow box and flood.
Not neccassarily . On the setup I built for my niece I have a ball valve on it, If you run it wide open it sucks air and make a gurgling sound and really slows the flow rate down. By closing the valve a little it stops it from sucking air and the flow rate goes up.

 

[mimzy]

My Way, it's a great idea to get together - i have no idea when we'll be able to do that, but we'll definitly try to put something together at some point before we start plumbing the tank. Everything is so up in the air with the relocation - u know how it is.
Let me see if I can get this.... so, the power goes off. The pump stops pumping water out of the sump and up the return tube. This means that whatever water was IN the return tube falls down back into the sump, and whatever water was coming TOWARD the sump from the supply tube ALSO falls into the sump.... and doesn't stop falling until the syphon from the u-tubes breaks... which would only happen if the u-tube lost contact with the water in the tank.
So, b/c the overflow box is so shallow and only just skims the surface of the tank, not much water would have to fall down the u-tubes thru the supply tube into the sump in order to render the water level in the TANK low enough to break the siphon.
...and hope against hope, this would not be enough water to flood the sump.
-all of this of course would happen if someone WASN'T there to close the valves on the supply tube and the return tube and pull the plug from the pump so that the siphon could be restarted properly when the power gets turned back on
did I get it?? did I, did I? Huh?? HUH??

 

[my way]

Your geting warmer, Warmer,WARmer,WARMer WARMEr, WARMER, you got it!!!!!!!!! :cheer: :jumping:

well i'm not quite sure you have everything figured out, the overflow box is designed so the U-Tube does not break siphon But when the level of the tank drops below the inlets of the overflow box it naturally stops.I think that is what you were trying to say.
When I set up a tank I shut the power off to see if the sump will flood. If it looks like it will flood I plug it back in and readjust til its right. Another reason I suggested a 20 gallon over your 12, more room for the extra water to go to.
You are now a plumber wumber from down umber.