oscardeuce
Active Member
All that's missing are the brown shirts.
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/54_144/news/35773-1.html
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/54_144/news/35773-1.html
Health care and the strong arm tactic
- Thread starter oscardeuce
- Start date
bionicarm
Active Member
Has anyone who is claiming Obama is trying to 'socilaize' health care, bothered to look at what he proposes to do?
* Establishing a new public program that would look a lot like Medicare for those under age-65 that would be available to those who do not have access to an employer plan or qualify for existing government programs like Medicaid or SCHIP. This would also be open to small employers who do not offer a private plan.
* Creating a “National Health Insurance Exchange.” This would be a government-run marketing organization that would sell insurance plans directly to those who did not have an employer plan or public coverage.
* An employer “pay or play” provision that would require an employer to either provide health insurance or contribute toward the cost of a public plan.
* Mandating that families cover all children through either a private or public health insurance plan.
* Expanding eligibility for government programs, like Medicaid and SCHIP.
* Allow flexibility in embracing state health reform initiatives.
With this plan, every citizen will have to pay SOMETHING in order to have health insurance. The Govt. isn't GIVING free insurance to anyone. The cost to the Federal Govt. will be around $50 - $70 billiuon a year. How do you pay for this? His main target is taking away certain tax breaks from individuals who make over $250K/year. Is this fair? Don't know. Some of you economics experts show me what the tax rate is for someone who makes $30,000/year, and someone who makes $300,000/year.
What I'd like to see following this, is to force the healthcare community (i.e doctors, hospitals, etc.) to adjust their cost to some form of realistic numbers. Health care is so expensive because we allow hospitals to charge $5 for an aspirin. Go spend a week in a SHARED hospital room, and your bill is over $3000 just for laying in the bed. Surgery? Don't know many where you don't spend at least $20K before you leave the hospital. Need to watch your bill, they do neat little tricks like charge your insurance company for 5 bags of IV Saline, when you only used 2. My wife had surgery a year ago for a benign tumor on her uterus, and her bill was over $95,000. She's an RN, and she knows exactly what drugs she received and what other items were used during her stay (bandaids, guaze, topical drugs, etc.). When she checked out, they handed a bill that was 10 PAGES long listed all the individual charges. She went home and looked at every line item. By the time she was through, she had 4 PAGES of the bill removed due to 'doubling' or 'tripling' of items they used on her, and also for items she knows they never used. It cut almost $7,000 off the final bill. Want healthcare reform? This is where Obama should start.
* Establishing a new public program that would look a lot like Medicare for those under age-65 that would be available to those who do not have access to an employer plan or qualify for existing government programs like Medicaid or SCHIP. This would also be open to small employers who do not offer a private plan.
* Creating a “National Health Insurance Exchange.” This would be a government-run marketing organization that would sell insurance plans directly to those who did not have an employer plan or public coverage.
* An employer “pay or play” provision that would require an employer to either provide health insurance or contribute toward the cost of a public plan.
* Mandating that families cover all children through either a private or public health insurance plan.
* Expanding eligibility for government programs, like Medicaid and SCHIP.
* Allow flexibility in embracing state health reform initiatives.
With this plan, every citizen will have to pay SOMETHING in order to have health insurance. The Govt. isn't GIVING free insurance to anyone. The cost to the Federal Govt. will be around $50 - $70 billiuon a year. How do you pay for this? His main target is taking away certain tax breaks from individuals who make over $250K/year. Is this fair? Don't know. Some of you economics experts show me what the tax rate is for someone who makes $30,000/year, and someone who makes $300,000/year.
What I'd like to see following this, is to force the healthcare community (i.e doctors, hospitals, etc.) to adjust their cost to some form of realistic numbers. Health care is so expensive because we allow hospitals to charge $5 for an aspirin. Go spend a week in a SHARED hospital room, and your bill is over $3000 just for laying in the bed. Surgery? Don't know many where you don't spend at least $20K before you leave the hospital. Need to watch your bill, they do neat little tricks like charge your insurance company for 5 bags of IV Saline, when you only used 2. My wife had surgery a year ago for a benign tumor on her uterus, and her bill was over $95,000. She's an RN, and she knows exactly what drugs she received and what other items were used during her stay (bandaids, guaze, topical drugs, etc.). When she checked out, they handed a bill that was 10 PAGES long listed all the individual charges. She went home and looked at every line item. By the time she was through, she had 4 PAGES of the bill removed due to 'doubling' or 'tripling' of items they used on her, and also for items she knows they never used. It cut almost $7,000 off the final bill. Want healthcare reform? This is where Obama should start.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3061555
Has anyone who is claiming Obama is trying to 'socilaize' health care, bothered to look at what he proposes to do?
* Establishing a new public program that would look a lot like Medicare for those under age-65 that would be available to those who do not have access to an employer plan or qualify for existing government programs like Medicaid or SCHIP. This would also be open to small employers who do not offer a private plan.
* Creating a “National Health Insurance Exchange.” This would be a government-run marketing organization that would sell insurance plans directly to those who did not have an employer plan or public coverage.
* An employer “pay or play” provision that would require an employer to either provide health insurance or contribute toward the cost of a public plan.
* Mandating that families cover all children through either a private or public health insurance plan.
* Expanding eligibility for government programs, like Medicaid and SCHIP.
* Allow flexibility in embracing state health reform initiatives.
With this plan, every citizen will have to pay SOMETHING in order to have health insurance. The Govt. isn't GIVING free insurance to anyone. The cost to the Federal Govt. will be around $50 - $70 billiuon a year. How do you pay for this? His main target is taking away certain tax breaks from individuals who make over $250K/year. Is this fair? Don't know. Some of you economics experts show me what the tax rate is for someone who makes $30,000/year, and someone who makes $300,000/year.
What I'd like to see following this, is to force the healthcare community (i.e doctors, hospitals, etc.) to adjust their cost to some form of realistic numbers. Health care is so expensive because we allow hospitals to charge $5 for an aspirin. Go spend a week in a SHARED hospital room, and your bill is over $3000 just for laying in the bed. Surgery? Don't know many where you don't spend at least $20K before you leave the hospital. Need to watch your bill, they do neat little tricks like charge your insurance company for 5 bags of IV Saline, when you only used 2. My wife had surgery a year ago for a benign tumor on her uterus, and her bill was over $95,000. She's an RN, and she knows exactly what drugs she received and what other items were used during her stay (bandaids, guaze, topical drugs, etc.). When she checked out, they handed a bill that was 10 PAGES long listed all the individual charges. She went home and looked at every line item. By the time she was through, she had 4 PAGES of the bill removed due to 'doubling' or 'tripling' of items they used on her, and also for items she knows they never used. It cut almost $7,000 off the final bill. Want healthcare reform? This is where Obama should start.
Obama does want to and will socialize our healthcare given the chance. His "proposals" and just campaign rhetoric designed to get a foot in the door.
But even if people are for Socialized health care they need to pull their heads out their arses and realize no matter who pays for health care we gotta get the costs under control. I've heard some pretty lame excuses for the 5 dollar aspirins.
First and best thing Obama could do to control health costs or at least pay for all the welcare (Hey I just created a new term) benefits he wants to give away is to create a new law denying public benefits to persons in the country illegally. Just ending the bilingual education would free up enough money to pay a large part of the costs.
Only thing I have seen in his plan that makes sense to me is the fine for not having health insurance. As long as it would allow a person not wanting insurance to post a bond in lieu of insurance like California at least used to do with car insurance I like that idea. I am sick and tired of paying for a bunch of irresponsible peoples living and I ain't just talking about health care.
http:///forum/post/3061555
Has anyone who is claiming Obama is trying to 'socilaize' health care, bothered to look at what he proposes to do?
* Establishing a new public program that would look a lot like Medicare for those under age-65 that would be available to those who do not have access to an employer plan or qualify for existing government programs like Medicaid or SCHIP. This would also be open to small employers who do not offer a private plan.
* Creating a “National Health Insurance Exchange.” This would be a government-run marketing organization that would sell insurance plans directly to those who did not have an employer plan or public coverage.
* An employer “pay or play” provision that would require an employer to either provide health insurance or contribute toward the cost of a public plan.
* Mandating that families cover all children through either a private or public health insurance plan.
* Expanding eligibility for government programs, like Medicaid and SCHIP.
* Allow flexibility in embracing state health reform initiatives.
With this plan, every citizen will have to pay SOMETHING in order to have health insurance. The Govt. isn't GIVING free insurance to anyone. The cost to the Federal Govt. will be around $50 - $70 billiuon a year. How do you pay for this? His main target is taking away certain tax breaks from individuals who make over $250K/year. Is this fair? Don't know. Some of you economics experts show me what the tax rate is for someone who makes $30,000/year, and someone who makes $300,000/year.
What I'd like to see following this, is to force the healthcare community (i.e doctors, hospitals, etc.) to adjust their cost to some form of realistic numbers. Health care is so expensive because we allow hospitals to charge $5 for an aspirin. Go spend a week in a SHARED hospital room, and your bill is over $3000 just for laying in the bed. Surgery? Don't know many where you don't spend at least $20K before you leave the hospital. Need to watch your bill, they do neat little tricks like charge your insurance company for 5 bags of IV Saline, when you only used 2. My wife had surgery a year ago for a benign tumor on her uterus, and her bill was over $95,000. She's an RN, and she knows exactly what drugs she received and what other items were used during her stay (bandaids, guaze, topical drugs, etc.). When she checked out, they handed a bill that was 10 PAGES long listed all the individual charges. She went home and looked at every line item. By the time she was through, she had 4 PAGES of the bill removed due to 'doubling' or 'tripling' of items they used on her, and also for items she knows they never used. It cut almost $7,000 off the final bill. Want healthcare reform? This is where Obama should start.
Obama does want to and will socialize our healthcare given the chance. His "proposals" and just campaign rhetoric designed to get a foot in the door.
But even if people are for Socialized health care they need to pull their heads out their arses and realize no matter who pays for health care we gotta get the costs under control. I've heard some pretty lame excuses for the 5 dollar aspirins.
First and best thing Obama could do to control health costs or at least pay for all the welcare (Hey I just created a new term) benefits he wants to give away is to create a new law denying public benefits to persons in the country illegally. Just ending the bilingual education would free up enough money to pay a large part of the costs.
Only thing I have seen in his plan that makes sense to me is the fine for not having health insurance. As long as it would allow a person not wanting insurance to post a bond in lieu of insurance like California at least used to do with car insurance I like that idea. I am sick and tired of paying for a bunch of irresponsible peoples living and I ain't just talking about health care.
oscardeuce
Active Member
"gov't run"
"mandates"
Sounds like socialism and loss of liberty to me.
Do you want you and your doctor making medical decisions, or do you want some gov't hack in DC making them. The porkulus bill lays the groundwork for that beurocracy.
Do you think someone will tell gov't officials like Son. Ted Kennedy he's too old for life saving or prolonging surgery? Our elites would be "too improtant to fail".
You won't pay $5 for an aspirin at the hospital, you'll pay $5 TAX when you by it at the store. The ride aint free folks, and the "rich"( remember there are always groups for the liberals to pit against each other) can't carry much more of the burden.
Watch out which tax deductions they go after. Retirement, health benefits, M@rtgage interest, all may be on the chopping block. Those affect more that the "rich".
Reform the tort and the dirt bag lawyers you see on TV. They all say "we'll make them pay" or some variant of that. At least 1/3-1/2 of the physician's bill goes to pay malpractice insurance. I see a patient and it costs me $30-40 in malpractice.
As to double billing, hopefully the electronic medical records will help with that. About the only role I see for gov't in healthcare is to help us get a good EMR.
It all comes down to this, right now we are driving the Cadillac of health care systems. If gov't house gets involved, you'll be driving a Pacer or Gremlin.
Look how well the gov't runs the BMV, Post Office, Senate Cafeteria. You want another 7%+ of the US economy run by President Obama? Maybe he can hire FIAT to buy us out when we are in trouble.
Exactly which article of the Constitution empowers tham to do any of the things they've done in the last 6 months?
"mandates"
Sounds like socialism and loss of liberty to me.
Do you want you and your doctor making medical decisions, or do you want some gov't hack in DC making them. The porkulus bill lays the groundwork for that beurocracy.
Do you think someone will tell gov't officials like Son. Ted Kennedy he's too old for life saving or prolonging surgery? Our elites would be "too improtant to fail".
You won't pay $5 for an aspirin at the hospital, you'll pay $5 TAX when you by it at the store. The ride aint free folks, and the "rich"( remember there are always groups for the liberals to pit against each other) can't carry much more of the burden.
Watch out which tax deductions they go after. Retirement, health benefits, M@rtgage interest, all may be on the chopping block. Those affect more that the "rich".
Reform the tort and the dirt bag lawyers you see on TV. They all say "we'll make them pay" or some variant of that. At least 1/3-1/2 of the physician's bill goes to pay malpractice insurance. I see a patient and it costs me $30-40 in malpractice.
As to double billing, hopefully the electronic medical records will help with that. About the only role I see for gov't in healthcare is to help us get a good EMR.
It all comes down to this, right now we are driving the Cadillac of health care systems. If gov't house gets involved, you'll be driving a Pacer or Gremlin.
Look how well the gov't runs the BMV, Post Office, Senate Cafeteria. You want another 7%+ of the US economy run by President Obama? Maybe he can hire FIAT to buy us out when we are in trouble.
Exactly which article of the Constitution empowers tham to do any of the things they've done in the last 6 months?
uneverno
Active Member
A lot depends on your perspective.
Emergency healthcare in America is the best in the world. In many instances, so is other healthcare. However, we also have the highest infant mortality rate among developed nations. How so?
I lost my job, and as a result my healthcare. (I had to choose between Cobra and paying rent.)
Now I'm uninsurable due to a pre-existing, potentially fatal condition.
I'll take socialism and "loss of liberty" over loss of life. Thanks.
Emergency healthcare in America is the best in the world. In many instances, so is other healthcare. However, we also have the highest infant mortality rate among developed nations. How so?
I lost my job, and as a result my healthcare. (I had to choose between Cobra and paying rent.)
Now I'm uninsurable due to a pre-existing, potentially fatal condition.
I'll take socialism and "loss of liberty" over loss of life. Thanks.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3061888
A lot depends on your perspective.
Emergency healthcare in America is the best in the world. In many instances, so is other healthcare. However, we also have the highest infant mortality rate among developed nations. How so?
I lost my job, and as a result my healthcare. (I had to choose between Cobra and paying rent.)
Now I'm uninsurable due to a pre-existing, potentially fatal condition.
I'll take socialism and "loss of liberty" over loss of life. Thanks.
Pre existing doesn't matter under a group policy. You are hosed if you have to buy insurance that isn't part of a employer plan.
Do you think you should be able to get your insurance coverage which would include coverage for your pre existing condition for the same price as anyone else?
I personally think health insurance should be sold just like car insurance. Those who use it more pay more. Just needs to be a more reasonable rate. I have a friend that whines about having to pay for his allergy shots out of pocket. Cry me a river. Life isn't fair but I really think there needs to be limits. Charging someone with pre existings a little more a month but covering their treatment is a reasonable way to handle it.
http:///forum/post/3061888
A lot depends on your perspective.
Emergency healthcare in America is the best in the world. In many instances, so is other healthcare. However, we also have the highest infant mortality rate among developed nations. How so?
I lost my job, and as a result my healthcare. (I had to choose between Cobra and paying rent.)
Now I'm uninsurable due to a pre-existing, potentially fatal condition.
I'll take socialism and "loss of liberty" over loss of life. Thanks.
Pre existing doesn't matter under a group policy. You are hosed if you have to buy insurance that isn't part of a employer plan.
Do you think you should be able to get your insurance coverage which would include coverage for your pre existing condition for the same price as anyone else?
I personally think health insurance should be sold just like car insurance. Those who use it more pay more. Just needs to be a more reasonable rate. I have a friend that whines about having to pay for his allergy shots out of pocket. Cry me a river. Life isn't fair but I really think there needs to be limits. Charging someone with pre existings a little more a month but covering their treatment is a reasonable way to handle it.
uneverno
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3061905
Pre existing doesn't matter under a group policy. You are hosed if you have to buy insurance that isn't part of a employer plan.
Varies from state to state and from plan to plan - meaning, in this economy especially, the healthcare provided is a consideration in my future employment. Asking about that in the interview however, is pretty much automatic grounds for dismissal of consideration, isn't it?
Do you think you should be able to get your insurance coverage which would include coverage for your pre existing condition for the same price as anyone else?
I don't think I should've lost coverage I've paid for for the last 35 years just because I lost my job in the first place. It wasn't a pre-existing condition for 33 of those years.
As w/ your example on car insurance, I've paid since I've been driving. One day, someone stole my truck. It was found, sans modifications, some two weeks later. To return it to original condition cost the insurance company $3,000 dollars. I had to fight for every penny of that, and then I was dropped. Had I taken the $15k I'd paid them over the years previous and invested it myself, I could've bought a new truck, modded it out, and taken a vacation to boot.
Insurance is a fairly new concept - less than 100 years old or so. Name me the biggest buildings in your city. Where I've lived, they are mostly insurance company buildings. I.e. my premiums don't go to health care, they buy real estate.
Meantime, they're whining that socialized medicine will kill them. I grew up in Europe. Regardless of what anyone's heard about it, European health care is excellent.
As you said, "cry me a river" AIG.
http:///forum/post/3061905
Pre existing doesn't matter under a group policy. You are hosed if you have to buy insurance that isn't part of a employer plan.
Varies from state to state and from plan to plan - meaning, in this economy especially, the healthcare provided is a consideration in my future employment. Asking about that in the interview however, is pretty much automatic grounds for dismissal of consideration, isn't it?
Do you think you should be able to get your insurance coverage which would include coverage for your pre existing condition for the same price as anyone else?
I don't think I should've lost coverage I've paid for for the last 35 years just because I lost my job in the first place. It wasn't a pre-existing condition for 33 of those years.
As w/ your example on car insurance, I've paid since I've been driving. One day, someone stole my truck. It was found, sans modifications, some two weeks later. To return it to original condition cost the insurance company $3,000 dollars. I had to fight for every penny of that, and then I was dropped. Had I taken the $15k I'd paid them over the years previous and invested it myself, I could've bought a new truck, modded it out, and taken a vacation to boot.
Insurance is a fairly new concept - less than 100 years old or so. Name me the biggest buildings in your city. Where I've lived, they are mostly insurance company buildings. I.e. my premiums don't go to health care, they buy real estate.
Meantime, they're whining that socialized medicine will kill them. I grew up in Europe. Regardless of what anyone's heard about it, European health care is excellent.
As you said, "cry me a river" AIG.
oscardeuce
Active Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3061888
A lot depends on your perspective.
Emergency healthcare in America is the best in the world. In many instances, so is other healthcare. However, we also have the highest infant mortality rate among developed nations. How so?
I lost my job, and as a result my healthcare. (I had to choose between Cobra and paying rent.)
Now I'm uninsurable due to a pre-existing, potentially fatal condition.
I'll take socialism and "loss of liberty" over loss of life. Thanks.
Have you heard of EMTALA? The libs seems to forget about this one.
YOU WILL NOT LOSE YOU LIFE FOR LACK OF CARE.
Legally and ethically it is the right thing to do.
BUT,
We have to see everyone who presents to the ED. I fork over my $35 for malpractice, and I don't see a cent from professional fees. I cannot even write the free care off my taxes. I figure in 10 years I've given $300,000 in "free care" That free also cost me about $50,000 in malpractice. So I'm $350000 in the hole, and add to that the $100,000+ for college medical school.
http:///forum/post/3061888
A lot depends on your perspective.
Emergency healthcare in America is the best in the world. In many instances, so is other healthcare. However, we also have the highest infant mortality rate among developed nations. How so?
I lost my job, and as a result my healthcare. (I had to choose between Cobra and paying rent.)
Now I'm uninsurable due to a pre-existing, potentially fatal condition.
I'll take socialism and "loss of liberty" over loss of life. Thanks.
Have you heard of EMTALA? The libs seems to forget about this one.
YOU WILL NOT LOSE YOU LIFE FOR LACK OF CARE.
Legally and ethically it is the right thing to do.
BUT,
We have to see everyone who presents to the ED. I fork over my $35 for malpractice, and I don't see a cent from professional fees. I cannot even write the free care off my taxes. I figure in 10 years I've given $300,000 in "free care" That free also cost me about $50,000 in malpractice. So I'm $350000 in the hole, and add to that the $100,000+ for college medical school.
tangman99
Active Member
Don't lump all heath insurance in the same boat. I work for a very large health insurance company and we are non-profit. I have no idea what Obama is ultimately going to do but we are looking very closely at the options. He does say that you can still buy the same health care you get today, but I tell you that is pure B.S. No insurance company is going to be able to stay in business when rules go in place that says you have to cover everyone and you have to pay this much but can only charge them this much for the insurance. In the end, there is a real good chance the government will be the only ones in the health insurance business. Welcome to socialized medicine.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3061917
Varies from state to state and from plan to plan - meaning, in this economy especially, the healthcare provided is a consideration in my future employment. Asking about that in the interview however, is pretty much automatic grounds for dismissal of consideration, isn't it?
I don't think I should've lost coverage I've paid for for the last 35 years just because I lost my job in the first place. It wasn't a pre-existing condition for 33 of those years.
As w/ your example on car insurance, I've paid since I've been driving. One day, someone stole my truck. It was found, sans modifications, some two weeks later. To return it to original condition cost the insurance company $3,000 dollars. I had to fight for every penny of that, and then I was dropped. Had I taken the $15k I'd paid them over the years previous and invested it myself, I could've bought a new truck, modded it out, and taken a vacation to boot.
Insurance is a fairly new concept - less than 100 years old or so. Name me the biggest buildings in your city. Where I've lived, they are mostly insurance company buildings. I.e. my premiums don't go to health care, they buy real estate.
Meantime, they're whining that socialized medicine will kill them. I grew up in Europe. Regardless of what anyone's heard about it, European health care is excellent.
As you said, "cry me a river" AIG.
If you grew up in Europe but have been paying for health coverage 35 years how do you know how their coverage is now days? Seems a little odd to me that the rich and famous tend to come to the US for medical treatment.
As far as Preexistings according to Federal law you are covered under a group health policy if you haven't been treated for the conditions within the 6 months prior to signing up for coverage. If you have received treatment then you have to be insured 12 months then coverage kicks in for the specific condition. States may have laws that are going to be different but they would have to be more favorable to the patient so the wait could be shorter.
http:///forum/post/3061917
Varies from state to state and from plan to plan - meaning, in this economy especially, the healthcare provided is a consideration in my future employment. Asking about that in the interview however, is pretty much automatic grounds for dismissal of consideration, isn't it?
I don't think I should've lost coverage I've paid for for the last 35 years just because I lost my job in the first place. It wasn't a pre-existing condition for 33 of those years.
As w/ your example on car insurance, I've paid since I've been driving. One day, someone stole my truck. It was found, sans modifications, some two weeks later. To return it to original condition cost the insurance company $3,000 dollars. I had to fight for every penny of that, and then I was dropped. Had I taken the $15k I'd paid them over the years previous and invested it myself, I could've bought a new truck, modded it out, and taken a vacation to boot.
Insurance is a fairly new concept - less than 100 years old or so. Name me the biggest buildings in your city. Where I've lived, they are mostly insurance company buildings. I.e. my premiums don't go to health care, they buy real estate.
Meantime, they're whining that socialized medicine will kill them. I grew up in Europe. Regardless of what anyone's heard about it, European health care is excellent.
As you said, "cry me a river" AIG.
If you grew up in Europe but have been paying for health coverage 35 years how do you know how their coverage is now days? Seems a little odd to me that the rich and famous tend to come to the US for medical treatment.
As far as Preexistings according to Federal law you are covered under a group health policy if you haven't been treated for the conditions within the 6 months prior to signing up for coverage. If you have received treatment then you have to be insured 12 months then coverage kicks in for the specific condition. States may have laws that are going to be different but they would have to be more favorable to the patient so the wait could be shorter.
bionicarm
Active Member
I pay for the 'less fortunate's' healthcare today. It's called the County Hospital here in San Antonio. Due to the Hypocratic Oath (I guess that's the reason they do it), no person who requires medical attention, for whatever reason, will be denied that care if they stroll into the County ER. If they are broke, indigent, and have no health insurance whatsoever, they can still get a heart transplant free of charge. Just the other night on the news, they had a story about some illegal immigrant that snuck over the border that had a bad ticker. They gave him a new heart valve. Who pays the bill? MY PROPERTY TAXES AND INCREASED INSURANCE PREMIUMS. Just because I'm fortuante to be able to afford to pay for my healthcare, I can't walk into the same County Hospital and get the same free services. So why not go ahead and put it on an even keel, and let ME get the same free services?
darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by TangMan99
http:///forum/post/3062108
Don't lump all heath insurance in the same boat. I work for a very large health insurance company and we are non-profit. I have no idea what Obama is ultimately going to do but we are looking very closely at the options. He does say that you can still buy the same health care you get today, but I tell you that is pure B.S. No insurance company is going to be able to stay in business when rules go in place that says you have to cover everyone and you have to pay this much but can only charge them this much for the insurance. In the end, there is a real good chance the government will be the only ones in the health insurance business. Welcome to socialized medicine.
The oter thing most aren't thinking about is this as well, what company is going to provide a healthcare program, pay a portion of the cost and still pay AN INCREASE IN TAXES FOR ANOTHER HEALTHCARE PLAN? They will drop their plan coverage they provide to cover the cost of healthcare taxes....
http:///forum/post/3062108
Don't lump all heath insurance in the same boat. I work for a very large health insurance company and we are non-profit. I have no idea what Obama is ultimately going to do but we are looking very closely at the options. He does say that you can still buy the same health care you get today, but I tell you that is pure B.S. No insurance company is going to be able to stay in business when rules go in place that says you have to cover everyone and you have to pay this much but can only charge them this much for the insurance. In the end, there is a real good chance the government will be the only ones in the health insurance business. Welcome to socialized medicine.
The oter thing most aren't thinking about is this as well, what company is going to provide a healthcare program, pay a portion of the cost and still pay AN INCREASE IN TAXES FOR ANOTHER HEALTHCARE PLAN? They will drop their plan coverage they provide to cover the cost of healthcare taxes....
darthtang aw
Active Member
You want free healthcare, join the military...they cover you for life.
mantisman51
Active Member
I don't want free healthcare, but I'll side with the lefties on this one. The American people are being r@ped by the healthcare industry. If you want to avoid socialized medicine, we would have to put strong and brutal anti-trust law into effect that would put insurance and pharmacuetical company executives in jail for years and confiscate everything they own to make a difference. When the insurance companies can basically blacklist you and collude to deprive you of insurance or price you out of affording it, then pharmacuetical companies can charge us Americans 100-10000 times what they charge everywhere else in the world and claim that it's for "development costs", then anti-trust laws with teeth or socialized healthcare is needed. There is no such thing as free market in healthcare now. It is legal organized crime. Cutting peoples insurance after their first major claim. I could go on. I am with the Democrats on this one. The Reps are on the payroll of the big medical companies.
uneverno
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3062157
If you grew up in Europe but have been paying for health coverage 35 years how do you know how their coverage is now days? Seems a little odd to me that the rich and famous tend to come to the US for medical treatment.
Because I worked there as an American. The treatment is no different, but as a non-citizen, it's not "free." (I realize it's not free, per se, but as a non-citizen, it's pay to play. Sorta the opposite of what we have here.)
That the rich and famous tend to come to the US is sorta true of the UK, but not so much the Continent. The UK has a health care double standard that the Continent generally does not.
http:///forum/post/3062157
If you grew up in Europe but have been paying for health coverage 35 years how do you know how their coverage is now days? Seems a little odd to me that the rich and famous tend to come to the US for medical treatment.
Because I worked there as an American. The treatment is no different, but as a non-citizen, it's not "free." (I realize it's not free, per se, but as a non-citizen, it's pay to play. Sorta the opposite of what we have here.)
That the rich and famous tend to come to the US is sorta true of the UK, but not so much the Continent. The UK has a health care double standard that the Continent generally does not.
oscardeuce
Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3062249
I pay for the 'less fortunate's' healthcare today. It's called the County Hospital here in San Antonio. Due to the Hypocratic Oath (I guess that's the reason they do it), no person who requires medical attention, for whatever reason, will be denied that care if they stroll into the County ER. If they are broke, indigent, and have no health insurance whatsoever, they can still get a heart transplant free of charge. Just the other night on the news, they had a story about some illegal immigrant that snuck over the border that had a bad ticker. They gave him a new heart valve. Who pays the bill? MY PROPERTY TAXES AND INCREASED INSURANCE PREMIUMS. Just because I'm fortuante to be able to afford to pay for my healthcare, I can't walk into the same County Hospital and get the same free services. So why not go ahead and put it on an even keel, and let ME get the same free services?
Bionic,
Google
EMTALA
http:///forum/post/3062249
I pay for the 'less fortunate's' healthcare today. It's called the County Hospital here in San Antonio. Due to the Hypocratic Oath (I guess that's the reason they do it), no person who requires medical attention, for whatever reason, will be denied that care if they stroll into the County ER. If they are broke, indigent, and have no health insurance whatsoever, they can still get a heart transplant free of charge. Just the other night on the news, they had a story about some illegal immigrant that snuck over the border that had a bad ticker. They gave him a new heart valve. Who pays the bill? MY PROPERTY TAXES AND INCREASED INSURANCE PREMIUMS. Just because I'm fortuante to be able to afford to pay for my healthcare, I can't walk into the same County Hospital and get the same free services. So why not go ahead and put it on an even keel, and let ME get the same free services?
Bionic,
EMTALA
oscardeuce
Active Member
Originally Posted by uneverno
http:///forum/post/3062886
Because I worked there as an American. The treatment is no different, but as a non-citizen, it's not "free." (I realize it's not free, per se, but as a non-citizen, it's pay to play. Sorta the opposite of what we have here.)
That the rich and famous tend to come to the US is sorta true of the UK, but not so much the Continent. The UK has a health care double standard that the Continent generally does not.
How many people have died escaping from the US to Cuba?
http:///forum/post/3062886
Because I worked there as an American. The treatment is no different, but as a non-citizen, it's not "free." (I realize it's not free, per se, but as a non-citizen, it's pay to play. Sorta the opposite of what we have here.)
That the rich and famous tend to come to the US is sorta true of the UK, but not so much the Continent. The UK has a health care double standard that the Continent generally does not.
How many people have died escaping from the US to Cuba?
salty blues
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3061682
.....create a new law denying public benefits to persons in the country illegally.
I agree, however I won't hold my breath on that. On the contrary, I believe obama/liberals want to give more benefits to illegals to help secure future elections after all these illegals are given amnesty and become part of the fold.
http:///forum/post/3061682
.....create a new law denying public benefits to persons in the country illegally.
I agree, however I won't hold my breath on that. On the contrary, I believe obama/liberals want to give more benefits to illegals to help secure future elections after all these illegals are given amnesty and become part of the fold.
bionicarm
Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/3063516
Bionic,
Google
EMTALA
OK, what's your point? It's exactly what I'm talking about. Like I said, if someone who has no insurance whatsoever can stroll into a hospital and claim 'emergency medical attention' is required, then walks out without paying a dime, why can't I?
http:///forum/post/3063516
Bionic,
EMTALA
OK, what's your point? It's exactly what I'm talking about. Like I said, if someone who has no insurance whatsoever can stroll into a hospital and claim 'emergency medical attention' is required, then walks out without paying a dime, why can't I?
uneverno
Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/3063517
How many people have died escaping from the US to Cuba?
How is that relevant?
The point I was making was that in Europe, health care is socialized, but if you're not a citizen you have to pay.
Here, healthcare is private, but if you're not a citizen, it's free.
On that level, the European model makes more sense to me. %%
Comparing first and third world is another discussion altogether.
http:///forum/post/3063517
How many people have died escaping from the US to Cuba?
How is that relevant?
The point I was making was that in Europe, health care is socialized, but if you're not a citizen you have to pay.
Here, healthcare is private, but if you're not a citizen, it's free.
On that level, the European model makes more sense to me. %%
Comparing first and third world is another discussion altogether.