Help/Advice 4 Newb to Salt

[gobyinpeace]

Hello fellow salt keepers.
I am just starting my 1st SW tank and I am really enjoying it so far. I have been a FW keeper for 20 + years. I am also a collector and dealer of Florida FW fishes. About a month a go I decided to begin collecting native Florida SW fishes. I decided to start small and began setting up a 20 G. tank. This tank is still cycling and has been set up now for about 3 weeks. I am going use this tank to raise native fry. When the fry reach a certain size or exceed my bioload they are then released back into the wild. I enjoy raising these little guys and observing their behavior in captivity.
My current set up has the following:
-15W Marine-Glo by Hagen + 15W GE Warm White for lighting.
-Aquaclear Mini Filter.
-JBJ 1300 Powerhead for current.
-DSB substrate sprinkled with fossilized coral rock w/live green hair algae taken from the Gulf of Mexico.
-Various live seaweeds and plants taken from the Gulf.
-Several inverts including: 2 small "sand sifting" crabs (1"), 3 shrimp(1"), several small snails (Nassarius vibex), a little blue clam (1/2"), and a small crab (3/4").
-6 Puffer fry (1/4"), a Trigger fish (1/2") - [These fish were in a minnow bucket my nephews brought back from the beach on Mother's Day so I decided to save them], and 1 Dwarf Sole (3/4") - [began cycle with 4 Dwarf Sole and removed 3 after I added the fry] All the fry devoured live brine within an hour in captivity and are doing exceptionally well.
My tank looks great so far with the seaweed, plants and rocks w/hair algae (looks like a putting green) providing lots of color and cover for the little guys.
Over the next 6 months I want to gradually convert this tank to a reef setup and will be adding the following:
Upgrade lighting to a 2X65W 10,000K 50/50 Actinic from Aqualight.
Add another JBJ 1300 PH for more current.
Add a Prizm protein skimmer.
Add 20lbs Live Rock, 5 lbs at a time.
Add some corals, shrooms, etc..
Now for the questions.
What can I expect from LR rock (what grows on it etc.).? My LFS recommends his Fiji stuff @ $4.99 per lb.
I want to bring in corals but only after I cure my LR for several months with the hope of adding corals 6 months from now.
My last question has to do with the stocking of inverts with regard to bioload. How many inverts am I allowed per gallon?
Any help, comments or advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Spike

 

[bbuck_camelback]

Many different things grow on liverock, coraline algae, feather dusters, marine plants, and sponges are the most common found on liverock. You are doing the right thing by waiting for the tank to mature. IMO 1-2 snails for every 5 gallon works, same goes for hermit crabs.

 

[gobyinpeace]

Thanks for the quick reply!
What about shrimp? Is there a "per inch per gallon" rule for each type of invert?
I can't wait to watch the LR grow as the things you described sound pretty cool especially the feather dusters. Can I expect alot from the Fiji rock? My LFS has a few nice purple pieces. What do I look for on the pieces I want to buy? Most of the rock he had looked quite ordinary.

 

[bbuck_camelback]

The per gallon rule is different with each invert; in a 20 gallon I would say 1 maybe 2 shrimp. Things to look for on liverock is good coralline growth (purple and red hard algae), shape, (I like nice round pieces) and life (dusters, sponge, marine plants). However there are things to look out for, one of these is the aiptasia anemone; it is a brownish in color. Do a search for aiptasia you will surely find a picture of it on here somewhere. Another liverock pest is the mantis shrimp, it is usually very colorful and attractive, but looks are deceiving. Also do a search on mantis shrimp, hth

 

[gobyinpeace]

I read up on Mantis Shrimp a few days ago. I remember reading about a public aquarium in California that has a rather large smasher lurking around, destroying hundreds of shelled inverts. I also read about amputated fingers and toes along with a smashed tank.
Thanks for the heads up on the other, I will definitely take a look at some photos.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by GobyInPeace
Hello fellow salt keepers.
I am just starting my 1st SW tank and I am really enjoying it so far. I have been a FW keeper for 20 + years. I am also a collector and dealer of Florida FW fishes. About a month a go I decided to begin collecting native Florida SW fishes. I decided to start small and began setting up a 20 G. tank. This tank is still cycling and has been set up now for about 3 weeks. I am going use this tank to raise native fry. When the fry reach a certain size or exceed my bioload they are then released back into the wild. I enjoy raising these little guys and observing their behavior in captivity.
My current set up has the following:
-15W Marine-Glo by Hagen + 15W GE Warm White for lighting.
-Aquaclear Mini Filter.
-JBJ 1300 Powerhead for current.
-DSB substrate sprinkled with fossilized coral rock w/live green hair algae taken from the Gulf of Mexico.
-Various live seaweeds and plants taken from the Gulf.
-Several inverts including: 2 small "sand sifting" crabs (1"), 3 shrimp(1"), several small snails (Nassarius vibex), a little blue clam (1/2"), and a small crab (3/4").
-6 Puffer fry (1/4"), a Trigger fish (1/2") - [These fish were in a minnow bucket my nephews brought back from the beach on Mother's Day so I decided to save them], and 1 Dwarf Sole (3/4") - [began cycle with 4 Dwarf Sole and removed 3 after I added the fry] All the fry devoured live brine within an hour in captivity and are doing exceptionally well.
My tank looks great so far with the seaweed, plants and rocks w/hair algae (looks like a putting green) providing lots of color and cover for the little guys.
God I envy you. You got everything you need right in your neighborhood. I can't get any of that stuff without paying big bucks. Excellent setup. About all you need to do is circulate the water a little. And you are correct, the fish you have will get too big very shortly. Especially the trigger.
Over the next 6 months I want to gradually convert this tank to a reef setup and will be adding the following:
Upgrade lighting to a 2X65W 10,000K 50/50 Actinic from Aqualight.
Add another JBJ 1300 PH for more current.
Add a Prizm protein skimmer.
Add 20lbs Live Rock, 5 lbs at a time.
Add some corals, shrooms, etc..
Now for the questions.
What can I expect from LR rock (what grows on it etc.).? My LFS recommends his Fiji stuff @ $4.99 per lb.


You can expect nothing other than introducing parasites not native to your climite.
I want to bring in corals but only after I cure my LR for several months with the hope of adding corals 6 months from now.
My last question has to do with the stocking of inverts with regard to bioload. How many inverts am I allowed per gallon?
Any help, comments or advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Spike
I would say just press on. Wish I could do what you are doing.

 

[gobyinpeace]

Thanks beaslbob. By introducing parasites not native to my climate are you reffering to the Fiji LR? I think that I may now add only Carribian (more native) LR as my LFS gets regular shipments of this as well (these peices are well cured). I was also told that you can put the LR in a bucket of water for a short time with high salinity levels to help get rid of unwanted hitchikers. Does this procedure cause a large die off on the LR? I really want to get some LR going. I am going to add another JBJ PH as I can see the deadspots inicated by the hair algae.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by GobyInPeace
Thanks beaslbob. By introducing parasites not native to my climate are you reffering to the Fiji LR? I think that I may now add only Carribian (more native) LR as my LFS gets regular shipments of this as well (these peices are well cured). I was also told that you can put the LR in a bucket of water for a short time with high salinity levels to help get rid of unwanted hitchikers. Does this procedure cause a large die off on the LR? I really want to get some LR going. I am going to add another JBJ PH as I can see the deadspots inicated by the hair algae.
Well perhaps I was a little too succient (blunt). Your tank is basically set up as a "planted" saltwater tank. your existing algae and plants are doing the exact same thing the live rock does. Yes, you can (and must) cure the live rock. But the reason us land bound people use live rock is for the exact same things you are using the algae and plants for. Plus the possibility of introducing things unwanted on the live rock, can not be ignored.
Basically my idea is:
why pay $4/lb when you get all you got from walking to the shore yourself or from friend's minnow buckets.
again. God i envy you !!!!!!!

 

[gobyinpeace]

Now I am confused even more. The rock I brought from the beach has no coralline on it. With this rock from the beach things won't start appearing like feather dusters and such. I did introduce this rock thinking it may bring along some beneficial bacteria, and small inverts. The pieces I did take have lots of holes and pockets and are well weathered and rounded. I was intending this rock to be my base rock. I do not intend on introducing any live rock until I get my upgraded lighting in a couple of weeks. Is it possible to introduce coralline and other neat stuff with out getting LR?

 

[gobyinpeace]

I couldn't resist (was going to wait till I got my Aqualight) and picked up some small peices (.08lbs total) of LR today just for the heck of it. The pieces I bought came from the Gulf of Mexico in keeping with my native theme.
The pieces are covered with red and purple coralline algae and I noticed some very small feather dusters. One piece has lots of very small white donut shaped growths as well as some white spirally thingies. I selected these pieces from a tank in my LFS's main filtration system and not from the tank with all the LR. They were the best looking of the lot IMO.
I placed each piece as high as I could and directly under my 15W actinic (about 8" below the light). Will this is enough light to keep it going till next week? I also added the other JBJ 1300 PH.
Soon after I added the PH a sandsifting crab I caught at the beach started to raise 1" long white "feathers" and began filter feeding. These guys are cool and make a great addition to a reef tank with a DSB flopping from place to place to feed from the current.
Since I have an RO filter in my house and can do frequent water changes I may skip getting a noisy protein skimmer altogether.
I am really digging this tank so far and thanks for all your help and comments and I hope you keep them coming. All the fry are doing great as well.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by GobyInPeace
I couldn't resist (was going to wait till I got my Aqualight) and picked up some small peices (.08lbs total) of LR today just for the heck of it. The pieces I bought came from the Gulf of Mexico in keeping with my native theme.
The pieces are covered with red and purple coralline algae and I noticed some very small feather dusters. One piece has lots of very small white donut shaped growths as well as some white spirally thingies. I selected these pieces from a tank in my LFS's main filtration system and not from the tank with all the LR. They were the best looking of the lot IMO.
I placed each piece as high as I could and directly under my 15W actinic (about 8" below the light). Will this is enough light to keep it going till next week? I also added the other JBJ 1300 PH.
Soon after I added the PH a sandsifting crab I caught at the beach started to raise 1" long white "feathers" and began filter feeding. These guys are cool and make a great addition to a reef tank with a DSB flopping from place to place to feed from the current.
Since I have an RO filter in my house and can do frequent water changes I may skip getting a noisy protein skimmer altogether.
I am really digging this tank so far and thanks for all your help and comments and I hope you keep them coming. All the fry are doing great as well.

I am glad you are enjoying the tank. Sorry for any confusion i may have caused earlier. The brightly colored coralline algae is a good reason for adding live rock. sure adds a lot of color and neat stuff.
My earlier comments were more to the stability of the tank and the fish. The really cool stuff you metion is very interesting. You just didn't need for a stable tank.
With the stability you have already (especially the algae), I consider a protien skimmer to be unnecessary.
I still envy you LOL

 

[gobyinpeace]

Here is an update for any that are interested.
I am now down to a couple of puffers (from 6) but the rest of the fry are doing great. The puffers killed each other off until the 2 largest remained. The little Trigger is doing really well and the other fish I have yet to ID. The red plants I collected turned out to be red macro algae and are attractive. I picked up a couple of Polka-dot Hermits from my LFS as they are a native species to FL. I also had them throw in 6 spare shells that were covered in purple coralline algae (to help seed the tank).
My temp. drops too 80F. (26-27C) when lights (30W. total) are off and climes to 82F (28C.) when they are on (1 degree higher since I added a second powerhead). When I put in the Aqualight am I going to have to go with an open canopy to keep the temp down? The Aqualights come with built in cooling fans.
I have a couple of more questions:
Should I get the 96W Aqualight or the 130W? I am thinking the 130W might bring up my temp. too much. Both are 10,000K 50/50 actinic, but the 130 has 2 bulbs w/dual plugs for alernating lighting time and the 96 has only one.
I there such a product that is a good phosphate remover that can be placed in my filter (AC mini) and be left in there for a month like my activated carbon?
Thanks again for any help, comments, or suggestions.
Spike

 

[bbuck_camelback]

Most phosphate sponges if left in a tank for a extending period of time will leach the phosphates back into the tank. I use PhosBan, it comes with a media bag which can be placed in the sump and or wetdry. I use a phosphate sponge for 2 days once a month, and it works fine.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by GobyInPeace
Here is an update for any that are interested.
I there such a product that is a good phosphate remover that can be placed in my filter (AC mini) and be left in there for a month like my activated carbon?
Thanks again for any help, comments, or suggestions.
Spike
Sorry to hear about the puffers. so you just went down to the beach and got a sand shifting crab. Yep I still envy you LOL.
temp variations for 80-82 is fine.
Do you actually have phosphates? All the algae you have should remove any phosphates present.