Help! All Fish Dying Quickly

mr&mrs.o

mr&mrs.o

Member
Water Parameters:
pH-7.8 (yes, we know this is low...adding buffer...but this happened before and the fish didn't die like this)
Nitrite-0
Ammonia-0
Nitrate-0
180 gallon tank with live rock/sand (set up for about 2 months...all live rock/sand transferred from previous tank which had been doing well for almost a year.) All was well prior to this.
Long story short-
Already had a yellow tang, 2 clowns, lawnmower blenny, serpent star, pink tip anem, bubble tip anem, and several crabs and snails. Added a gold rim tang and 2 firefish gobies and a few corals last Tuesday (with proper acclimation). A few days after adding them, the gold rim developed a few white spots (we assumed to be Ich). We bought 2 cleaner shrimp which actually cleaned the gold rim within a couple of days. No other fish had any "signs" of Ich. We did not treat the Ich as it seemed to be under control and was not spreading. (Mistake??) Last night one of the firefish died...quickly. The blenny was "standing" in the corner (unusual). The clowns are staying under a rock (normally sleep next to the overflow). We got up this morning to find the blenny, the gold rim, and the other firefish had died. THe yellow tang is barely swimming.
Any ideas as to what is causing this? Is it the ich even though there are no visible signs? Is there any way to save the fish remaining?
ANy help is greatly appreciated.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Unless you actually see spots on the fish at this point, then I don't think that ich can be causing deaths.
However, low pH will. Take a water sample to you LFS and have them test it for you to make sure it is low. Also, when making adjustments to pH, it has to be done very gradually. No sudden shifts in pH.
 
mr&mrs.o

mr&mrs.o

Member
Thank you! In the previous tank, we found that the pH had dropped to 7.8 but previous tests showed 8.2/8.4. We added the buffer which did help to raise it.
Previous tests on this tank also showed normal pH but the test last night indicated 7.8. Any idea what would cause this to continue happening?
(We use RO water.)
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
do you have a powerhead that ripples the top of the water?
is there a sump?is the tank covered tightly?
what time of day do you test?
i have my ph get to 7.8 once in a while but never killed any fish it self corrects in a day or so.
make some new saltwater and test the ph.
 
mr&mrs.o

mr&mrs.o

Member
do you have a powerhead that ripples the top of the water? Yes, two on each end and two in the middle.is there a sump? Yes
is the tank covered tightly? No, open with just light above. Previous tank had a wood canopy with open back.
what time of day do you test? Evening. (Does this make a difference?)
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
looks like airation isnt the problem.ph will read different in the morning than in the evening.
i would check the new water also.
 
mr&mrs.o

mr&mrs.o

Member
Should we check the pH of the plain RO water for when we're just adding water from evaporation? Or just check the water for water changes (salt included)?
We have a freshwater tank as well which I have to add a regulator for pH to when adding/changing water. Do you think it's going to be the same situation for the saltwater tank (but with buffer)? Also, we really haven't had any pH problems until recently. I've heard that the A/C in your home can affect this. Do you know if that is accurate?
P.S. We did a water change and added the pH buffer. Yellow tang is still not doing well. We are just hoping he'll somehow pull through it :(
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
i really dont think 7.8 ph is going to wipe out a tank.
r/o water should be around 7.2 ph so you need to check the salt mix.
have you checked the magnisium?
water hardness? these come into play also.
i dont like to use buffer it is a false fix.
saltwater and freshwater fish are nothing alike .
are the fish hanging on the bottom or top of the tank?
seems you have some kind of toxin or contaminate in the water to me.
have you added any new equiptment lately?
there was a poster that added a new skimmer without washing it first and it did the same thing to his tank.he did some water changes and added 3 bags of carbon to get rid of the contaminate.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs.O
http:///forum/post/3108534
Should we check the pH of the plain RO water for when we're just adding water from evaporation? Or just check the water for water changes (salt included)?
We have a freshwater tank as well which I have to add a regulator for pH to when adding/changing water. Do you think it's going to be the same situation for the saltwater tank (but with buffer)? Also, we really haven't had any pH problems until recently. I've heard that the A/C in your home can affect this. Do you know if that is accurate?
P.S. We did a water change and added the pH buffer. Yellow tang is still not doing well. We are just hoping he'll somehow pull through it :(

I am so sorry to hear of all your troubles...I want to offer my 2 bits. The only time I ever lost more than 1 fish at a time was when I had used puffs with lotion for my cold, then put my hands into the tank without washing ...
Is it possible you could have touched something, or dripped something into the tank? I am just tossing out ideas here to try to help and solve the mystery.
 
mr&mrs.o

mr&mrs.o

Member
have you checked the magnisium? Have not done this, apparently we don't have a magnesium test.(I suppose we should go buy one?)water hardness? Testing hardness now.
i dont like to use buffer it is a false fix.
saltwater and freshwater fish are nothing alike. I realize that, I was just refering more to the quality of our water in general (as we know we have issues with the other tank.)
are the fish hanging on the bottom or top of the tank? Right now, the tang is laying in the bottom of the tank. It doesn't seem like he's going to make it. None of them were at the top of the tank.
seems you have some kind of toxin or contaminate in the water to me.
have you added any new equiptment lately? No, nothing other than everything that came with the new tank, no problems with it in the few months it's been going.
there was a poster that added a new skimmer without washing it first and it did the same thing to his tank.he did some water changes and added 3 bags of carbon to get rid of the contaminate
Is it possible you could have touched something, or dripped something into the tank? I am just tossing out ideas here to try to help and solve the mystery. We use towels to dry off while doing things in the tank. But we've been doing this and using same detergent the entire time we've had the tanks with no issue. The only thing I can think of (just now hitting me) is that the EXTERIOR of the tank was cleaned with a glass cleaner so possibly a little bit got in there. My husband said that he may have had it on his hands...so it looks like this might be the problem??? Now my question is, how in the world do we clear it out?
At this point, we have another tank, one with some of the white dry rock, it seems the water parameters are all ok in that tank. Would it be wise to remove the remaining fish to that tank? Also, why aren't the corals/inverts being affected?
 
mr&mrs.o

mr&mrs.o

Member
Would it be more stressful to move them? Or possibly give them a better change of living? The tank is actually the previous tank just with different rock in it, same water and a good bit of the old sand.
Is the rock in our current tank going to be "ruined" or will we be able to remove all the "toxin" and the tank be stable again?
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
fish and corals are affected differently.
its odd though corals are more sensitive than fish ,fish will usually adapt to something bad easier than corals do.
are all the fish sick or are they coming up at different times?
if there is something in the water carbon filter will usually absorb it pretty fast.
are you sure you have eneough flow i know you said you have 4 powerheads but if the water is low on oxygen the fish will act this way.
i have all added up over 7000 gph in my 225 and i need to add more flow .
do you have another pump or two you can put in ?
are the fish breathing hard?
 
mr&mrs.o

mr&mrs.o

Member
One of the firefish starting laying around the bottom last night. Died last night.
Clowns started hanging out under rock yesterday. Still there, but not laying down like others. My husband at home says they are breathing harder than normal but not acting like the tang.
Gold rim appeared to be just fine yesterday. Dead this morning.
Yellow tang appeared fine yesterday. Now barely swimming, laying down. Yes, he's breathing hard
Other firefish kind of hiding out yesterday. Dead this morning.
Blenny started sitting on bottom yesterday. Dead this morning.
Starfish lives under rock all the time. He is alive right now...unable to see him but he's moving.
There is another pump at the bottom on one side of the tank. You can see the corals "flowing" in different areas of the tank so it seems the water would be moving well enough?? The tank has been this way since setup and none of the fish have acted this way before...why now??
 
mr&mrs.o

mr&mrs.o

Member
How will I know when all of the "toxin" is gone from the water? We plan on doing several water changes and will use the carbon to help remove it...but how will we know it's ok?
The remaining clowns have been moved back to the old tank. (The yellow tang didn't make it). Should we move the anems, crabs, snails, star?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs.O
http:///forum/post/3108622
How will I know when all of the "toxin" is gone from the water? We plan on doing several water changes and will use the carbon to help remove it...but how will we know it's ok?
The remaining clowns have been moved back to the old tank. (The yellow tang didn't make it). Should we move the anems, crabs, snails, star?

When fish breath hard it usually is poison or ammonia.
It would be too much more stress to start moving everything...JMO...IF it is toxin, running activated charcoal in the filter will eliminate the problem... run that in the filter and see if it helps, if it does and you see the fish improve...give it about 6 hours, then do a 30% water change, then a small one every day for a week, keep running the carbon.
I am afraid that is my limit on what to do....hope this helps, or someone chimes in with better ideas.
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
who tested the water?
i find it hard to believe that such a young tank has no nitrates.
you said zero ammonia ?
nitrites wont harm the fish nearly as much as ammonia.
i do the same as you with my tanks always sticking my arm in wiping with a towel,never had a problem.
i would say you either have ammonia in there or the fish arent getting air.
glass cleaner on the outside isnt really eneough to hurt.
it doesnt take much flow to make corals sway around.
i would test the ammonia again .
 
mr&mrs.o

mr&mrs.o

Member
Originally Posted by deejeff442
http:///forum/post/3108683
who tested the water?
i find it hard to believe that such a young tank has no nitrates.
you said zero ammonia ?
nitrites wont harm the fish nearly as much as ammonia.
i do the same as you with my tanks always sticking my arm in wiping with a towel,never had a problem.
i would say you either have ammonia in there or the fish arent getting air.
glass cleaner on the outside isnt really eneough to hurt.
it doesnt take much flow to make corals sway around.
i would test the ammonia again .
THe tank is technically about a year old. And if it did cycle, it was a "mini"cycle. We let it sit before putting the fish in initially just to be sure. True this one has only been set up a couple of months, but the things in the tank have been established for about a year.
We did the test with a drop test kit, that was purchased when we first started a tank.
We believe the cleaner must have been on his hands when he put them in the tank...I really don't understand how so little could have this effect, but can't come up with anything else.
We'll test the ammonia again to be sure.
But how can it be lack of oxygen?? If the 4 other fish had been living just fine with no signs of stress for a couple of months?? Why wouldn't this problem have shown up much earlier?

We'll look into getting a couple more powerheads anyway.
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
what are the powerheads that you have?
how big?
i stick my hands in my tanks up to my armpit and never had an issue.
i cant see it being anything but ammonia or air ?
it doesnt take much ammonia to kill fish.you could actually miss it on a test because it turns to nitrites pretty fast and the damage has already been done to the fish and sometimes they dont recover.
also it doesnt matter if the stuff came out of an established tank once the lr ,sand or whatever hits the air and is disturbed it sometimes is worse than getting new stuff.the bacteria goes toxic from the move.
i always buy new sand when i move or put the old sand in a 5 gallon bucket and fill it with water stirring it up then pouring out the water .
you would be surprised how much stuff accumulates in the sand.
 
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