Help! Before everything dies...

[mmbltcsw1]

Ok, so it started with both of the feather dusters crowns getting short and thin... then they fell off. That was a week ago and yet to regrow. One of the dusters is showing his head but no crown.
Then, my bubble tip anemone is not bubbly anymore... it looks thin and sometimes really thin and short.
Now, a couple of snails died. Some of the nassarius don't crawl under the sand bed anymore...they lay on top appearing very weak. They don't come out when feeding like usual. Don't think they're dead because they still move, slowly, but they move.
My three zoos seem to be unhappy. They are semi-closed and not bright.
The clownfish and small regal tang are feeling great and as happy as can be.
Hermit crabs are a bit less active but still alive.
Finally (this has been ongoing for a while), red algae on the sand and glass is uncontrollable. I clean the glass and sand... a day or two later its back!
I do 25% water changes weekly.
Params are:
Specific Gravity: 1.024
Temp: 78
pH: 8.4
Alk: 3.5 mEq/L
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10 mg/L
Calcium: 405-420
Phosphate: 0.4 mg/L
Pics were taken thru the dirty red glass
Pics:
1: Unhappy zoos
2: BTA not bubbly
3: Sand full of algae
4: Feather Duster showing its face but no feathers
5: Glass full of algae

 

[olemiss]

Has your tank been exposed to copper, just a thought since only your inverts are dying.

 

[mmbltcsw1]

not that i know of... i havent used any medication.

 

[flower]

Your tank is overrun with cyanobacteria. You are reading low phosphates because it is feeding on it. You need to get as much of it out as possible and get a medicine called redX or some other brand to get the red algae out. It is suffocating everything. How many power heads do you have running, and do you use a skimmer?
High phosphates, low water flow and over feeding are main causes. The feather dusters are losing the crown because the cyano is feeding on all the food in the water and they are starving, same with the zoos.
Usually water changes are what is recommended, and not chemicals, but you have a major problem and need to fix it ASAP.

 

[nycbob]

r u using ro water? more info such as lbs of lr and lighting.

 

[new2salt1]

Do we even know how big this tank is?
Assuming this is an emergency and things are dying, this is what I would do:
1. Go to LFS and buy enough of their HEALTHY, CYCLED SYSTEM WATER to fill your tank, plus 25%.
2. Remove all rock, coral, fish, and inverts from your tank and place in large tupperware with your current tank water.
3. THOROUGHLY scrub your tank from top to bottom using warmest water possible. Refill with LFS water, leaving room for your livestock. Get rid off all carbon pouches or other filtration media. Clean powerheads thoroughly and dry before reinstalling.
4. In a 2nd smaller container, scrub all algae off of rock & coral. Once clean, place coral, rock, fish, and inverts in a 3rd container where you will being acclimating with LFS water.
5. Once acclimated, put all inhabitants back in the display tank.
Tips:
*Keep the tank bare-bottom to begin with. If you still have an algae problem, bare bottom will cut back on the surface area where algae can grow.
*Buy PhosBan pouches or some other type of anti-algae product. Make sure it is in an area of good flow (like the "waterfall" part of the overflow). You can also add your typical filter floss/carbon pouch here.
*Once done, keep one of the tupperware containers filled as a QT tank. If one of the inhabitants is really sick, you will want a place to keep them separate from the rest of the DT.

 

[new2salt1]

I just wanted to add that I agree with everyone who has mentioned the following:
1. water source (RO over TAP ALWAYS)
2. overfeeding (feed only as much as fish can eat, plus a little left over for scavengers; turn off flow when you feed so you dont have decaying food in your overflow/sump)
3. make sure you have sufficient flow.
The only reason I'm suggesting a full breakdown with CYCLED LFS water is this:
Your rock has absorbed phosphates. If you want the best chance to eliminate phos then you NEED a max water change. HOWEVER, with things potentially dying, you don't want uncycled water to force you into a new cycle WHILE you're fighting the phos/algae infestation. If everything looks healthy, you can do a decent water change in 3 days so your trace elements are where they should be.
My way is NOT the easiest way but I believe it is the safest and most effective way when things are dying.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by New2Salt1
http:///forum/post/3180911
I just wanted to add that I agree with everyone who has mentioned the following:
1. water source (RO over TAP ALWAYS)
2. overfeeding (feed only as much as fish can eat, plus a little left over for scavengers; turn off flow when you feed so you dont have decaying food in your overflow/sump)
3. make sure you have sufficient flow.
The only reason I'm suggesting a full breakdown with CYCLED LFS water is this:
Your rock has absorbed phosphates. If you want the best chance to eliminate phos then you NEED a max water change. HOWEVER, with things potentially dying, you don't want uncycled water to force you into a new cycle WHILE you're fighting the phos/algae infestation. If everything looks healthy, you can do a decent water change in 3 days so your trace elements are where they should be.
My way is NOT the easiest way but I believe it is the safest and most effective way when things are dying.

You cannot do this. LFS will sell only saltwater, not water that has cycled, unless they are doing a water change. Then whatever problems they have, you will have, like ich from new critters being shipped in.
Plus most of the good bacteria are on the rocks, not in the water. Your method will cause it to be a brand new tank and it will cycle.
The problem is not algae, it is cyanobacteria. While a major water change is indeed necessary, first get rid of the red cyano as much as possible, and since it is already chocking coral use a remover chemical. THEN do the water change as instructions for RedX (or other brand) explains.
After everything is under control use the phosban or purigen pouches in the filter system. Increase water flow and never overfeed.

 

[reefkprz]

not only is there cyanobacteria on the sand but red cotton algae growing on the rocks, this is highly indicitave of excess nutrients. the algaes are consuming them as fast as they are created thats why your water is testing OK, but there is ample phosphates and nitrates for the algae to grow along with the cyanobacteria. you need to re-asses your filtration or waterchanges. along with your export you should look at how much food is going into the tank etc.

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by New2Salt1
http:///forum/post/3180911
you don't want uncycled water to force you into a new cycle WHILE you're fighting the phos/algae infestation. .
using new clean water wont cause a cycle, even if you change 100%.
using old "cycled water" can only introduce the things your trying to remove with a water change, and some parasites that your not currently dealing with.

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3181024

You cannot do this. LFS will sell only saltwater, not water that has cycled, unless they are doing a water change. .
the LFS's around here will sell you dirty water (aka water from their tanks) if you willing to pay for it. its foolish but true. maybe your local stores wont but there are plenty of places that will.

 

[reefkprz]

what kind of phosphate test are you using?
anyhow, my reccomendation is to do large water changes with "fresh clean water" not used water. you can change up to 100% safely as long as the temperature and specific gravity match up, this is important to prevent osmotic shock to your fish and invertabretes, the SG and temp must be exact. I cant stress that enough.
if you cant get your SG and temp perfect stick with multiple smaller water changes like 25% or so.
reduce the amount your currently feeding your tank by about half, to slow the influx of nutrients. if your feeding any "liquid filterfeeder foods" stop feeding them most of them are just pollution in a bottle. feed only live phyto or frozen zoo plankton. avoid liquid suspended zoo and phytoplanktons.

[hr]
we need more information on your tnak to provide much in the way of help.
how much flow do you have?
what kind of filtration are you using?
are you running any carbons or similar media?
what kinds of foods do you use, and how much?
have you ever (when adding new fish) put the water from the bag into the tank from the store?

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/3181046
the LFS's around here will sell you dirty water (aka water from their tanks) if you willing to pay for it. its foolish but true. maybe your local stores wont but there are plenty of places that will.

Okay let me rephrase it. You should not do this. Because whatever problem the LFS has in their tank will now be a new problem in yours. For example Ich, LFS get new shipments all the time. Those fish are stressed and can be carrying ich, or some other parasite disease.
LFS will sell you anything.

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3181053

Okay let me rephrase it. You should not do this. Because whatever problem the LFS has in their tank will now be a new problem in yours. For example Ich, LFS get new shipments all the time. Those fish are stressed and can be carrying ich, or some other parasite disease.
LFS will sell you anything.
couldnt agree more.

 

[new2salt1]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/3181043
using new clean water wont cause a cycle, even if you change 100%.
using old "cycled water" can only introduce the things your trying to remove with a water change, and some parasites that your not currently dealing with.
REALLY!??? Doing a 100% water change on a tank with dying inhabitants wont cause a cycle?
Interesting.
So tell me, why dont we just start all of our tanks with 100% non-cycled water?
Hmmmm...
Edit: And please dont tell me the LR has enough beneficial bacteria to quell a cycle. The LR is trashed.

 

[new2salt1]

Notice I said this:
"Go to LFS and buy enough of their HEALTHY, CYCLED SYSTEM WATER to fill your tank, plus 25%."
Notice I didn't say, "Go to your LFS and ask for ich-infected, unhealthy water."
GOOD REEF SHOPS - like the Hidden Reef here outside of Philly - have display tanks that are separate from the "for sale" livestock system. These tanks are maintained by people who have worked in the industry for 30+ years. I started my 14 gallon with water from one of their 300+ gallon tanks and I lost nothing and my tank has been thriving for 4 years.
The original poster is OBVIOUSLY doing something wrong. If this tank is on the brink of death (like it sounds), the OP probably doesn't have TIME to figure it out today. With that said, he could do ALOT worse than getting healthy reef tank water and starting over.
People start tanks ALL THE TIME with water from other systems. If the source tanks are healthy, I dont see a better alternative.

 

[new2salt1]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/3181047
if you cant get your SG and temp perfect stick with multiple smaller water changes like 25% or so.
Dude, do you not realize EVERYTHING IN HIS TANK IS DYING?????
And you are recommending 25% water changes?

And you say my advice of getting water from a professional, thriving system is bad?
Wow...

 

[new2salt1]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3181053

Okay let me rephrase it. You should not do this. Because whatever problem the LFS has in their tank will now be a new problem in yours. For example Ich, LFS get new shipments all the time. Those fish are stressed and can be carrying ich, or some other parasite disease.
LFS will sell you anything.

This is just hilarious to me. Some LFS have some of the most beautiful display tanks. Yet you are telling him to avoid the LFS's death-water in favor of keeping his own water, which is killing everything in the tank. Nice!

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by New2Salt1
http:///forum/post/3181071
Notice I said this:
"Go to LFS and buy enough of their HEALTHY, CYCLED SYSTEM WATER to fill your tank, plus 25%."
Notice I didn't say, "Go to your LFS and ask for ich-infected, unhealthy water."
GOOD REEF SHOPS - like the Hidden Reef here outside of Philly - have display tanks that are separate from the "for sale" livestock system. These tanks are maintained by people who have worked in the industry for 30+ years. I started my 14 gallon with water from one of their 300+ gallon tanks and I lost nothing and my tank has been thriving for 4 years.
The original poster is OBVIOUSLY doing something wrong. If this tank is on the brink of death (like it sounds), the OP probably doesn't have TIME to figure it out today.
With that said, he could do ALOT worse than getting healthy reef tank water and starting over.
People start tanks ALL THE TIME with water from other systems. If the source tanks are healthy, I dont see a better alternative.

I am not trying to argue. The OP has a cyano problem, not algae. Also. even an established reef in a great fish store is still only going to sell you water from a water change. The water is swapped out for a reason, it is depleted of nutrients. If they have any problem, even hair algae spores, it will become your problem.
Stores do not even mix the water from one tank to another. It is an unhealthy practice.
OPs tank is not dead. The coral is being chocked by the cyano covering it. The stuff comes up like a carpet and can be removed with a turkey baster. By adding a medicine to kill what is left, he will have a chance to add water flow and remove phosphates and watch the feeding now that he knows better…IF that is an issue.
The cyano is too much to just do water changes now, the coral doesn’t have time for that correct remedy… it takes time to correct things naturally without chemicals.
It is my personal opinion that the advice you offered just isn’t a good thing to do. That does not mean that my advice is etched in concrete either. There are folks with lots more experience and maybe can offer something better than my idea.
It isn’t an insult to be told there is a better method than what we offer, and to be given the reason why will educate us all. Nor does it diminish the fact that we are all trying to help. That is what makes this site so great.

 

[no_wedge]

first thing get those inverts especially that bta out of there and to a healthy tank, someone local or the lfs talk to them about keeping it for a while. then work on your tank