Help! Dead fish everywhere!

[darth tang]

What kind of fish have you tried to add? Do they breath heavily?
I agree with the acclimation points. Your acclimation method is not Ideal. However it may stem to what species you are trying. The drip method is best but NOT all saltwater fish need acclimated this way. When I had damsels, I just temp acclimated. Never lost a damsel due to acclimation shock. However I do not condone doing this as I was naive in saltwater when I was doing this and starting with damsels.
Ophiura you may want to include the reason why some LFS don't drip acclimate due to the water Ph and ammonia level in the bags the fish are transported in and how acclimation in this case will cause the death of fish at LFS. I can't remember the exact science behind it but it would be helpful for others to know why drip acclimation isn't always done. Just so the averaGE JOE DOESN'T GET IT IN THEIR HEAD THAT ACCLIMATION ISN'T NEEDED AT ALL. (Oops hit the caps.)

 

[darth tang]

Also how many fish are you adding at one time??

 

[bunnyl99]

one per month. I'm thinking of adding a yellow tang in w/my lipstick tang. I heard I would have to add 2 more to make 3 cause they will fight till one dies. Is this true?

 

[darth tang]

I am unfamiliar with the behavior of the lipstick tang. I will give you this to think about. If they are of similar shape I would not recommend it as they tend to fight each other. However some people have had mild success mixing multitudes of tangs. Just be prepared if it doesn't work out. I personally believe mixing tangs leads to ich outbreaks as one of them tends to become stressed. This is my experience as I mixed two to three tangs a couple times with no success, resulting in ich outbreaks.

 

[tankgirl1]

As noob-a-licious as I am, I even know that you are acclimating your fish incredibly wrong! Please don't add anything else to the tank until you get some better water testing established!!! :scared: This should only take a couple of weeks, so please be more patient with your tank.
My tang experience is similar to Darth Tangs. Though I am unfamiliar with Lipstick Tangs, I know that tangs are very territorial and will fight one another if they have similar shapes and sizes. On this website you can review the types of fish and see their hardiness level and care specifications, as well as SUGGESTED acclimation times. 15 minutes is cruel.
I do not use the drip acclimation method myself, but I have never lost a fish from improper acclimation. I float all of my fish and add 1/4 cup of water every 30 minutes from my tank to the bag for approx 3 hours on all species. Then, I net the fish and place him/her in the tank w/o the store water!! Leave the lights off for at least a couple of hours. When I add a territorial fish, I usually do a water change and re-arrange the rock the same day so that territories are no longer in-tact. This works fine for me and does not seem to stress my fish (at least not too badly).
Take the extra hour at least to acclimate your fish. Patience is a virtue!! :happyfish

 

[ophiura]

Lipstick tang, I believe, is another name for a Naso.
Nasos are large tangs and IMO not suitable for a 90g for the long term...which is why I would not add another tang personally. It can be done but it is not the best thing, IMO. However, it is certainly not a fish I would try if I am having trouble keeping thngs alive. That is not the best plan.
To cover what Darth Tang mentioned about acclimation -
Many LFS do not acclimate fish because the fish are in transport for a long time. During this period, ammonia builds up and the fish is respiring (giving off CO2). CO2 combines with water to form and acid, and this acid lowers the pH of the water. This is actually handy, for ammonia is far less toxic at lower pH's. If the fish was acclimated, the pH would slowly increase, and ammoina would slowly become toxic.
In an LFS to home situation there is no excuse, personally, for not acclimating unless you have some sort of objection to it. While fish can tolerate wide and sudden changes in pH and salinity, it is still a shock, and after several days or weeks of transport...well, it is just good to minimize this shock. However I again go back to the fact that LFS typically do not acclimate, and yet they typically do not lose ALL their fish. If this were one fish out of a few that were tried, then I might say acclimation. But with EVERY new fish dying, I'm not so sure. I would think at least one would make it based on the odds.

 

[sinner's girl]

What I find odd, is that the tang is doing well, they aren't hardy fish, if something was wrong with the water wouldn't the tang be sick?-trying to learn...not questioning you

 

[ophiura]

Sometimes established fish do OK...
This brings up another interesting question though. Is this issue a recent one? Meaning were you able to previously introduce the fish without significant losses? Or did you still lose several fish and just happen to have the Naso and damsels survive?

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Sometimes established fish do OK...
This brings up another interesting question though. Is this issue a recent one? Meaning were you able to previously introduce the fish without significant losses? Or did you still lose several fish and just happen to have the Naso and damsels survive?

One possibility that I made to sure check is my LFS has 2 sets of tanks..
FO - 1.009
Reef - 1.024
The fish i get from thier reef tanks acclimate much faster as Mine is 1.026
The Fish I get from thier FO tanks i have to acclimate a lot longer to get the salinity the same...
If they have fish at 1.009 and he tries to dump them in his 1.024....thats a recipe for death.

 

[scubadoo]

I do not beleive your issue is with acclimation alone ..although your protocol should be changed as suggested . I agree with O on this one as fish should be acclimated but often are not at the lfs.
The fact that you are loosing all new additions leads me to beleive you have an aggressor(s) in the system. Your system is too small for a Naso so he may not like any new competition added to the system...unless he is very small. Damsels are known tormentors. Can a fish be killed overnight...yes.. Your acclimation protocol is placing the animals under more stress then a slow acclimated animal. An aggressor sensing a weakend animal will make quick work of the new addition. The extra stress due to a poor acclimation protocol means a faster death once the aggressor attacks. You never know wht happens once the lights go off and the room dims. Not all animals run to bed.
In the future, I would monitior any new additions closely....to see if there is aggression...even after the lights go off on the system .
It is possible that you have an enviornmental issue that the current fish have adjusted to...but I doubt it.
JMO

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
I do not beleive your issue is with acclimation alone ..although your protocol should be changed as suggested . I agree with O on this one as fish should be acclimated but often are not at the lfs.
The fact that you are loosing all new additions leads me to beleive you have an aggressor(s) in the system. Your system is too small for a Naso so he may not like any new competition added to the system...unless he is very small. Damsels are known tormentors. Can a fish be killed overnight...yes.. Your acclimation protocol is placing the animals under more stress then a slow acclimated animal. An aggressor sensing a weakend animal will make quick work of the new addition. The extra stress due to a poor acclimation protocol means a faster death once the aggressor attacks. You never know wht happens once the lights go off and the room dims. Not all animals run to bed.
In the future, I would monitior any new additions closely....to see if there is aggression...even after the lights go off on the system .
It is possible that you have an enviornmental issue that the current fish have adjusted to...but I doubt it.
JMO
Disregard as I just read some survived weeks. You probably have a water quality/enviornmental issue that the current animals/surviviors have adapted to. I doubt your tests are accurate. I just read your nitrates are zero...tough to achieve with an undergravel filter and cc.

 

[thomas712]

bunny - I'm not jumping on your case here but I just have to say from my experience that.
An undergravel filter and crushed coral NEVER equal 0 nitrates......Never to an established tank with those two.
In order to find your problem we need to restart with the water chemistry. I suggest you test it yourself (if that is what you are doing) then compare your tests with an experienced LFS tester. Do everything.
Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, alkalinity, calcium, phosphates, pH ave, temp, salinity. Possibly even stray voltage.
Death in an aquarium automatically spikes ammonia and nitrites and nitrates then follow suite. Unless you've done an aweful lot of water changes to keep up with that I just don't see how its possible to have 0 nitates.
Restart with the chemistry.

 

[lion24]

i agree with thomas712 about undergravel filter and crushed coral issue. in my experience what i do when almost all new fishes i put in my tank dies after 2days or so is to replace at least 30percent of the water in the tank with new ones then place your newly bought fish there after. It works for me everytime. And also lipstick tang is so hard to keep u must have caulerpa or other algae to condition it fast.

 

[darth tang]

Thomas I will disagree with your assessment. I run crushed coral in my aggressive tank. I have had nitrate problems in the past but for the last 6 months I have maintained 0 nitrates with monthly water changes of ten percent. I had a nitrate problem for a while (I believe I was overstocking my tank though) I only have three fish in my 140 (panthe grouper almost 7 inches, a neon velvet damsel 5 inches, and a black molly) I know this contributes to my low Nitrates. I only plan on two more fish for this tank.
However I also have 50 lbs of live rock, about 200 naussais snails a couple mexican turbos, a very large orange knobby starfish, a purple lobster, and a couple hermits. So nothing sits in my tank very long without being consumed.

 

[darth tang]

Forgot to add I have two other tanks and neither of them have crushed coral. I PREFER Live sand and do see the benefits of live sand over crushed coral. I left my 140 with crushed coral as the bed is 5-6 inches deep and chock full of all sorts of pods. I don't particularly want to lose them. Especially since I got them the helped keep my nitrates down.

 

[cynelson]

acclimate! acclimate! acclimate! The drip method is the best thing I ever did! Thank god for this site! I'd have been losing fish forever! I lost alot of fish in the beginning because my lfs told me to float em and put em in! After I started acclimating, I have'nt lost one!!! :cheer:

 

[ophiura]

I am a fan of acclimation...let me clarify that. I think it is important. However, if it was always fatal, then we would NEVER do freshwater dips because it would kill all fish that it is done too, and that fact is it doesn't. Fish go from relatively high salinity to no salinity and back again. Its a stress, but considered in some cases to be of more benefit than harm. It may kill some fish, but it doesn't kill all. So while acclimation is an important consideration, I would still not expect ALL fish to die.
Still interested to hear if this has been the case all along, or if the Naso and damsels went in fine but everything since has died...or if the naso and damsels are the survivors in a long string of deaths before and after.

 

[fishieness]

once my mom and dad got divourced, my dad's friend gave him a little 10 gallon freshwater tank with 7 goldfish. everyone died within a few months except for one named winky. He went on to survive for 10 years! My dad used only spring water form the store and we could not find out what happened. In the years of Winky'slife, we tried many other fish from algae eaters to more goldfish. Not one lived longer than a month or so. Winky had jsut built up some imunity to something that was obviously present.... Although i DO believe that acclimation was the key here, there may besomething else in the tank that is unknonwn as was suggested before. The previous was jst proof that there are other factors.

 

[konrade]

As everyone has mentioned above, it could partly be because of your acclimation method,although, I have never lost a fish in the 15 minute acclimation method. :notsure: It could also be because these fish are all cyanide caught. Bi-color angels are especially known for being cyanide caught. Could you tell us what kind of fish they were? Also, a 90 gallon is way to small for a lipstick tang. They get HUGE. To add those yellow tangs you would have to get rid of the lipstick tang, and then MAYBE you could have two yellow tangs.

 

[viper44901]

bump