Help Diagnosing Ailing Purple Tang

[eorwar]

Hello all,
I am new to the forum and looking for some advice on how to diagnose and treat a problem I am having with my new purple tang. I got him almost 2 weeks ago. He is medium-sized, about 4" long. In the store he looked OK, swimming around and the clerk said he was acclimated and eating misis. Since I have had him, he has been reclusive and will not eat. There are no outward signs of disease, but he does flash against the substrate and live rock occasionally. He has been coming out more but still will not eat anything. He seems lethargic and will pick at the substrate kind of effortlessly. While the others are voraciously eating, shreds of seaweed will practically hit him in the face as if he doesn't even see/smell it. I feed my fish frozen brine, misis, krill, formula 2 & copepods as well as flake and green, red & brown seaweed. He wants no part of any of it. I just tried Formula 2 pellets with garlic with no success either. Have not tried the Kent Marine garlic extract as of yet. All other fish in the tank are thriving with no signs of disease. See fish list below. Tank is 55 gallons with a UV sterilizer and skimmer installed. It has been established for 6 months. Last water quality results below as well. I am currently cycling my 15 gal. QT/hospital tank and it should be ready this weekend. I plan to run copper and formalin in there to treat sick fish. Historically, I have not had luck with Yellow Tangs or Koran Angels. I lost 2 Yellow Tangs to popeye and 2 Korans to lymphnocysts. Each lasted about 2 weeks. No other fish seem to be affected.
Salinity: 1.023
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20
PH: 8.3
Copper: .25 (In process of removing)
Fish (all small to medium sized)
- Purple Tang
- Sailfin tang
- Hippo Tang
- Pearlscale Butterfly
- Black & White Heniochus
- Vermiculated Angel
- Flame Angel
- Blue Damsel
- Lawnmower Blenny
- Firefish Goby
- Green Spotted Mandarin Goby
- Pajama Cardinal
- Cleaner Wrasse
- 2 med. size pieces of live rock
Any help that can be provided is much appreciated! I do not want to lose my favorite fish to starvation or disease!

 

[beth]

What size is your tank? How long has your tank been set up?
My view is any ammonia is bad news. Also, nitrate level is too high, especially for tangs. Have you noticed any ich?

 

[eorwar]

Thanks Beth. As stated in my post:
Tank is 55 gallons with a UV sterilizer and skimmer installed. It has been established for 6 months.
Hoping the skimmer will help the nitrates, and have not had Ich as of yet (knock on wood).
Any help is appreciated.

 

[vinnyraptor]

sir you are WAY OVERSTOCKED! 1 tang is too many for a 55 gallon.
Originally Posted by eorwar
http:///forum/post/2808654
Thanks Beth. As stated in my post:
Tank is 55 gallons with a UV sterilizer and skimmer installed. It has been established for 6 months.
Hoping the skimmer will help the nitrates, and have not had Ich as of yet (knock on wood).
Any help is appreciated.

 

[beth]

Way over stocked is an understatement. I would suggest finding new homes for the following:
- Purple Tang
- Sailfin tang
- Hippo Tang
- Pearlscale Butterfly
- Black & White Heniochus
- Vermiculated Angel
- Blue Damsel
- Lawnmower Blenny
- Green Spotted Mandarin Goby
These fish will not fare well, or even live, in your tank.

 

[errattiq]

+1 Holy cow, even if they are real tiny that would still be overstocked... What is your secret to keeping your nitrates as low as they are with all those fish in a 55!?!?!? LOL We'd be glad to know! $20 says he is overly stressed with his new tankmates/surroundings... Emphasis on the sailfin, hippo and even damsel, very territorial fish... Especially having two tangs of similar shape in a small tank, I can almost guarantee that sailfin is the primary cause, its already established and now it has a newcomer in its territory... Did you quarantine the purple when you bought him?? Acclimate him to your tank properly? The lethargic activity your describing is tell-tale stress related... Get him into the quarantine and he'll be fine... Then you can send me the $20 we bet LOL.
PS. How much liverock do you have in there? You said 2 medium pieces but how many pounds altogether? The rule of thumb is at least 1lb of live rock/ gallon of water... Not just for aesthetics but for an excellent source of biological filtratrion for your water. I'm still baffled that your water parameters are soooo good in a tank stocked that way with little live rock.....
-Josh P

 

[sepulatian]

As mentioned, you are overstocked. You are new to the hobby and probably didn't get the best advice from your LFS. Welcome to the boards! Here you will find that we don't gain anything from your stock. We are all here to help and share our experiences. I am sure that you don't want to hear that you will have to get rid of some of your fish if you want them all to live. It is true though. Your fish will decline in health. That could lead to several, if not many, deaths. Please thin out your stock. I have a 55 myself. The tank has been in the same location for about two years. I have two dwarf lions and a Falco hawk in there right now. I have a maroon clown that will be ready to go in in two weeks. I take my time. It is very important for the health of your fish. You can stock quickly but you will run into big time trouble soon enough. Please don't do that. Ask us anything. That is what we are here for

 

[eorwar]

Wow, some welcome.
sepulatian, thank you for the hospitality.
I can assure you that I am not trying to knowingly overstock my tank. In my opinion, they are all small and have enough room to swim freely. I have noticed zero aggression from any of them. No fin bites, no chasing. Frankly, I am a bit confused by the seemingly hostile reaction to my tank stocking. I am simply trying to establish a nice tank with a varied stock of colorful species. What is the rule of thumb? 1 fish per 10 gallons? Someone please enlighten me. I will try to snap a panarama of the tank with them out and about for reference.
errattiq, I did move the purple out of the display into the QT last night. The water had cycled and had similar parameters. He does seem less stressed, but still is not eating as of this morning. I left some green algae attached to a rock for him to hopefully pick at overnight, no luck. I will monitor him in there for a while and keep trying to get him to eat. The QT was not ready when I got him and he was acclimated properly. As of right now, would you reccomend trying hypo or medication on him? Would there be any negative side effects of trying hypo as a preventative measure? In regards to the water quality, I just do regular water changes and test frequently. The only additives I use are essential elements, superbuffer dkh, and coralbuilder all from Kent. I'll send your $20 when he eats.

As far as the stock, you all seem to feel strongly that I am overstocked. I will cease adding new fish and thin out the stock to give them a little more room. Maybe after this and some time in QT, the purple will come out OK.

 

[errattiq]

I'd leave the quarantine at normal parameters, no medication, no hypo, they could just further stress him... If you want, you can put in some instant ocean "lifeguard" tablets. I've used them with very good results on a clown that had a near death experience for seemingly no reason. Its basically an antibiotic in case the fish has an internal parasite of some sort... That would be ok for him. I do apologize if I came off a bit agressive about the overstocking of your tank. The only reason people like us get a bit sensitive about that sort of thing is for a number of reasons (none of which are directed at you personally unless you are willingly try to hurt the fish which im sure you aren't). 1) We on this site have personal vendettas against fish stores who willingly sell livestock with no moral reservation as to fish health or well being. I've helped some people on here who had fish stores sell them numerous large angels and tons of other fish for tanks as small as a 29 gallon... They aren't in it for the hobbyist, but merely their personal gain (which isn't bad because its a business but its bad because there are no ethics involved). 2) Those fish cost $$$$$!!! We get a little animated because we know some of those fish will surely die. The seriousness of the situation has to been made clear because we simply don't want you to lose so much cash in the process. This hobby is expensive enough never mind replacing expensive fish on a normal basis. That is a major cause of people leaving this hobby, and we here don't want a negative growth trend... If your tank is good for now, then definitely go with it. Just keep in mind a tank upgrade will be a necessity at some point or giving away/selling livestock will become necessary. Thats all... Again, sorry for my harshness, welcome to the site, PLEASE ask questions here, we make no $$ from you and we are only here for YOU, not our wallets.
As always, its a learning point, we've had many and so will you.. believe me LOL!!!
-Josh P

 

[vinnyraptor]

Originally Posted by eorwar
http:///forum/post/2809689
Wow, some welcome.
sepulatian, thank you for the hospitality.
I can assure you that I am not trying to knowingly overstock my tank. In my opinion, they are all small and have enough room to swim freely. I have noticed zero aggression from any of them. No fin bites, no chasing. Frankly, I am a bit confused by the seemingly hostile reaction to my tank stocking. I am simply trying to establish a nice tank with a varied stock of colorful species. What is the rule of thumb? 1 fish per 10 gallons? Someone please enlighten me. I will try to snap a panarama of the tank with them out and about for reference.
errattiq, I did move the purple out of the display into the QT last night. The water had cycled and had similar parameters. He does seem less stressed, but still is not eating as of this morning. I left some green algae attached to a rock for him to hopefully pick at overnight, no luck. I will monitor him in there for a while and keep trying to get him to eat. The QT was not ready when I got him and he was acclimated properly. As of right now, would you reccomend trying hypo or medication on him? Would there be any negative side effects of trying hypo as a preventative measure? In regards to the water quality, I just do regular water changes and test frequently. The only additives I use are essential elements, superbuffer dkh, and coralbuilder all from Kent. I'll send your $20 when he eats.

As far as the stock, you all seem to feel strongly that I am overstocked. I will cease adding new fish and thin out the stock to give them a little more room. Maybe after this and some time in QT, the purple will come out OK.
its not a strong feeling its a fact. its not freshwater were you can load a tank. you need to decide on a few fish and get rid of the rest. the tangs should all go as well as the mandarin. mandarins need tons of rock work to survive as well as meaty frozen foods. i doubt he's getting anything to eat with only 2 pieces of rock and fast agressive eaters like tangs swimming around. there is no reason to treat the purple his not sick just stressed. if you really want to keep that many fish upgrade to 200+ gallons. if not its time to trade most of them in.