HELP - Fish Dying

[fpmars]

I started a reef system July 19, 2013. I have had freshwater systems for many years but this is my first saltwater tank.

Tank: 55 gal.
Eshoppes RS-75 sump
5 gal refugium
Reef Octopus 4 skimmer
2 Hydor Koralia Evolution 1150 powerheads
40 lbs live sand bed
80 lbs live rock
StarkLED lights (30W Marine Blue and 30W Marine White)
Currently in tank:
Striped Basslet
Yellow Tang
2 - Pajama Cardinals
4 - Green Chromis
Black Damselfish
Firefish Goby
Red Banded Coral Shrimp
Fire Shrimp
2 - Emerald Crabs
Red Starfish
Serpent Starfish
About 6 Snails
Green Anemone
Featherduster
12 Corals
All fish are small to medium. All corals and shrimp doing very well.
All saltwater obtained from LFS. 25% water changes once per month.
Water: Ammonia-0, Nitrate-50, Nitrite-0, Salinity 1.024, Temp = 78F, PH-8.0, Alkalinity-7.0, Calcium-420.
Food: Flakes in morning, Frozen Mysis or Brine shrimp ( thawed first) in afternoon
Seaweed on clip.
Problem: I buy fish and they last a week to 3 weeks, then die. They are looking good and eating one day then dead the next. I have lost a dozen fish this way. Some of the fish currently in the tank have been in there a couple of months. I never had more than 12 - 14 fish in the tank at any one time.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmars http:///t/396522/help-fish-dying#post_3533135
I started a reef system July 19, 2013. I have had freshwater systems for many years but this is my first saltwater tank.

Tank: 55 gal.
Eshoppes RS-75 sump
5 gal refugium
Reef Octopus 4 skimmer
2 Hydor Koralia Evolution 1150 powerheads
40 lbs live sand bed
80 lbs live rock
StarkLED lights (30W Marine Blue and 30W Marine White)
Currently in tank:
Striped Basslet
Yellow Tang
2 - Pajama Cardinals
4 - Green Chromis
Black Damselfish
Firefish Goby
Red Banded Coral Shrimp
Fire Shrimp
2 - Emerald Crabs
Red Starfish
Serpent Starfish
About 6 Snails
Green Anemone
Featherduster
12 Corals
All fish are small to medium. All corals and shrimp doing very well.
All saltwater obtained from LFS. 25% water changes once per month.
Water: Ammonia-0, Nitrate-50, Nitrite-0, Salinity 1.024, Temp = 78F, PH-8.0, Alkalinity-7.0, Calcium-420.
Food: Flakes in morning, Frozen Mysis or Brine shrimp ( thawed first) in afternoon
Seaweed on clip.
Problem: I buy fish and they last a week to 3 weeks, then die. They are looking good and eating one day then dead the next. I have lost a dozen fish this way. Some of the fish currently in the tank have been in there a couple of months. I never had more than 12 - 14 fish in the tank at any one time.

Hi, Welcome to the site....Sorry to hear of your troubles.

12 to 14 fish, even medium to small in size, in a 55g is too many fish. The most fish I kept in my 90g reef, were 6. I don't think it's a water issue or the shrimp and anemone would die first, they are much more sensitive to water conditions then fish.

They only thing I can think of is aggression issues. SW fish like their space, and many will fight to the death for territory. and too many in a tank as small as a 55g and they don't do well. Do the fish look beat up at all, any torn or missing fins?

The Damsel fish are killers, they murder off any fish less timid then themselves. The Yellow tang is another bad boy fish, they like the run of the tank, and need about 6 foot of space to call their own to be happy.

A 55g tank is only 48 inches long and very narrow, with 80 pounds of rock... the fish won't have much room to swim, I'm surprised the anemone hasn't eaten it's fair share, or stung to death what it doesn't eat...the fish won't have much space to get around it.

 

[seafishlover]

The problem I believe is your black damsel fish. These fish are very territorial. They will take on any size fish and go after it until it is stressed out so bad it dies. This will especially happen if you introduce any fish after the damsel fish has been placed in tank. I would get rid of this fish and then you shouldn't have any problems. All the other inhabitants that you have in your 55 gallon should be fine. I have never heard of a yellow tang going after another fish . I have had saltwater tanks for over 30 years now. I have always kept yellow tangs, blue hippo tangs, firefish gobies, all kinds of anemones,shrimps, corals. seahorses, featherdusters, seapins, feather dusters, crabs, snails, eels, triggers, etc.

Just remember if you have yellow tangs they need to be in odd numbers, so do your blue hippos. I have never heard of a sea anemone killing a fish, unless the fish is sick and lands in their tentacles.

You only have nine fish in your tank so you should be fine with the set up you have for a 55 gallon tank. You need the crabs, starfish, shrimp as they will help you maintain a healthy tank.

Hope this helps some..

 

[mr llimpid]

+ one on Flowers comments. Too many fish in a 55, they will be more aggressive this way. Coral banded and fire shrimp in 55 sure deaths to the fire shrimp, it only time. Your tank is only 3 months old and you are over stocked, adding additional load would cause spikes which cause a new fish even more stress then being harassed by the current residence more stress. Stress causes unknown deaths. Key to successful tank is patience’s and mature tank. Sorry if this sound mean, but I have done what you are going threw, I feel your pain.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by seafishlover http:///t/396522/help-fish-dying#post_3533181
The problem I believe is your black damsel fish. These fish are very territorial. They will take on any size fish and go after it until it is stressed out so bad it dies. This will especially happen if you introduce any fish after the damsel fish has been placed in tank. I would get rid of this fish and then you shouldn't have any problems. All the other inhabitants that you have in your 55 gallon should be fine. I have never heard of a yellow tang going after another fish . I have had saltwater tanks for over 30 years now. I have always kept yellow tangs, blue hippo tangs, firefish gobies, all kinds of anemones,shrimps, corals. seahorses, featherdusters, seapins, feather dusters, crabs, snails, eels, triggers, etc.

Just remember if you have yellow tangs they need to be in odd numbers, so do your blue hippos. I have never heard of a sea anemone killing a fish, unless the fish is sick and lands in their tentacles.

You only have nine fish in your tank so you should be fine with the set up you have for a 55 gallon tank. You need the crabs, starfish, shrimp as they will help you maintain a healthy tank.

Hope this helps some..


Hi,

Welcome to the site...

30 years experience, and you tell someone that you kept an odd number of tangs, including Hippos....he is stocking a 55g tank with 80 pounds of rock, which would leave no space for the fish to swim and you tell them they shouldn't have a problem....really?????

Maybe you never heard of it...now you have....I have had plenty of sea anemones, and they eat and sting to death any fish, shrimp or otherwise that gets too close to it. Perhaps a sick anemone may not have much of a stinging punch, but my healthy one managed it without a hiccup. A very healthy Copperbanded Butterfly fish I had was caught once, and it actually had welts where it had been stung to death. That same anemone (over time) ate 3 quite healthy lawnmower blennies, and numerous cleaner shrimp, the butterfly was the last straw, I got rid of my beautiful fish eater, and don't recommend them in tight quarters. I had a 90g...this person we are talking to has a 55g tank. Think about it....48 inches long, 12 inches wide (the width of a regular school ruler) and 19 inches high, with 80 pounds of rock....with 9 fish in it, and an anemone...really...you see no problem????

All anemones are the same, they sting and eat whatever gets close enough, that's how they survive in the ocean...they wouldn't last long if they had wait for a sick fish to fall into it's tentacles...instead they sting to stun their food, if anything eatable gets close enough. They also follow the water flow, and get caught in the intake tubes and power heads (everything must be covered).

I highly doubt you kept odd numbers of tangs in any 55g.

 

[saxman]

Did the fishes show any signs of pathology?

Have you QT'd all of the fishes, or did you plop them into the DT and hope for the best?

Also, did you get all of your fishes from the same LFS? It might be them or their wholesaler/collector that has the problem...

Lots of fishes, esp. lately, it seems have been coming in with "cooties" of various types, so a QT has become even more important.

 

[mr llimpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/396522/help-fish-dying#post_3533227
Did the fishes show any signs of pathology?

Have you QT'd all of the fishes, or did you plop them into the DT and hope for the best?

Also, did you get all of your fishes from the same LFS? It might be them or their wholesaler/collector that has the problem...

Lots of fishes, esp. lately, it seems have been coming in with "cooties" of various types, so a QT has become even more important.
Thanks saxman

haven't heard that used in a while.

 

[fpmars]

Thank you all so much for your excellent suggestions. I have a lot to learn. I will not buy any more fish, watch the anemone and return the tang and damsel (if I can catch them). I do use drip acclimation but not quarantine. Bought fish from 2 different LFS. Question: What kind of filtering should I use for a quarantine tank?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmars http:///t/396522/help-fish-dying#post_3533261
Thank you all so much for your excellent suggestions. I have a lot to learn. I will not buy any more fish, watch the anemone and return the tang and damsel (if I can catch them). I do use drip acclimation but not quarantine. Bought fish from 2 different LFS. Question: What kind of filtering should I use for a quarantine tank?

Hi,

I use a little HOB filter with white floss that is from the display, so it has a bunch of good bacteria on it. No sand, but paint the bottom black on the outside, or put a towel under the tank. A piece of PVC pipe, or resin decoration. An air line (no stone) attach it via rubberband to the pipe/decor to hold the line to the bottom of the tank, to move the water and oxygenate it.

Extra tip: A little macroalgae, since I have it in the display already, helps a great deal to keep the parameters healthy. If you can get your hands on some, it will really help.
I also use ammonia test strips to watch the ammonia each day (that is the only time I use test strips)...I have premixed saltwater in a plastic can with a pump to churn it, in case I need to do an emergency water change.

 

[aquariumgirl16]

Some fish may be bullying the others. I have a 50 gallon tank, and I have never had more than 4 fish. saltwater fish are also expensive. do some research on the fish you want and which ones are compatible and moderately easy to take care of. you just started saltwater this year, so it would be better to start with the easier fish. Just as firefish and clownfish are both in the top five as easy to take care of, they are not compatible whatsoever. firefish are shy and clownfish are mostly aggressive. Also, if you want to keep your shrimp completely healthy, keep the nitrates at 0. Damselfish are also aggressive. Don't keep them with firefish, chromis, or cardinals. If you want to stock your tank, make sure you put the aggressive fish in last, at least a month after all the peaceful fish have been settled.

 

[rusting]

how are your water nitrate levels in my opinion weekly water changes of 20-25% will keep it in check and yes you are over stocked for that tank

 

[seafishlover]

FIRST OF ALL WHY DON'T YOU TALK TO MARINE BIOLOGIST....I CERTAINLY DO NOT THINK YOU HAVE A DEGREE IN THIS FIELD DO YOU??????? IF AND WHEN YOU GET YOUR DEGREE IN MARINE BIO. YOU CAN TELL ME THAT I'M DOING THINGS WRONG. I HAVE THE DEGREE AND I HAVE KEPT SALTWATER TANKS FOR OVER 30 YEARS. SO FROM NOW ON PLEASE DON'T EMAIL ME YOUR ADVICE ...I'M NOT INTERESTED.