Help from DIY Sump Experts

fishrule

fishrule

Member
I have done my best to use the advanced search feature of the forums to no avail. (Removes search terms such as DIY, Sump, 55, etc.
)
My wife finally permitted me (She is the Boss
) to build a Sump for my tank in a separate utility room next to my Display tank (So not under the Stand).
My Display tank is a 55 Gallon which I plan on stocking with all sorts of Corals except SPS (Future Maybe) and only a few fish. The tank has been up and running for a little over 2 years and it is about time I set it up correctly. I have 140+ pounds of Live Rock and at least 2 inches of Live Sand. I have a 280 watt Coralife Aqualite. (150 Watt MH 10,000k and 2x64 Watt Actinic PCs)
I have a fluidized bed filter on the tank that I want to move to the sump as well as the tank heater.
I also have a Fluval 330 Canister filter full of 20 pounds of Live rock that I will leave attached to the tank, unless I need to move it to the sump for any reason?
I plan on incorporating this overflow: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/288154/diy-overflow-check-it-out
and this Turf Skimmer over the sump setup https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/330606/mega-powerful-nitrate-and-phosphate-remover-replaces-skimmer-refugium-everything
I would like to have 2 to 4 returns in the display tank for water flow.
I have at my disposal 2 standard 30 gallon tanks for the sump/refuge. I also have a drain pipe to the house where the tanks are going that i would like to plumb into the sump for both water changes and to prevent a sump overflow if needed.
I might add a Protean skimmer, but I'm not sure if I need it with the Turf Skimmer in place?
What I need help with is the sump and refuge design given the two 30 gallon tanks I have to work with and I want to make sure it all works properly with the turf skimmer.
I have no idea what pump(s) I need to buy in order to make this all work.
Is there any need for powerheads in the Display tank or will return pumps be more than enough?
Anything else I should add to the system? (I prefer to DIY as much of this as possible for Hobby purposes)
Let me know what specs you need from me to better help answer my questions.
I appreciate any help I can get.
 
jpa0741

jpa0741

Member
Let me start with a few things you can think about. IMO I would skip the turf scrubber and just grow a macro of your choice in the fuge. A lot less maintanance. Also I would really consider a skimmer IMO one of the most important part of a nice reef tank. You will need power heads in the display unless you do a closed loop. You will not want to supply all your flow with your return pump. I can try to help no matter what you decide to go with. Also I see you are from MI. Have you checked out our local forum. Lots of knowledgable reefers. I will send a link.
 
fishrule

fishrule

Member
jpa, Thanks,
I will need all the help I can get. I have a few weeks off to do this project, so I will need to start it ASAP.
I would love a link to the local forum. I didn't know we had one for Michigan.
Is Cheato(sp) good enough for the micro or do you have a better suggestion? The only reason I was thinking turf skimming, was I thought it was the best method. I'm open to anything.
 
jpa0741

jpa0741

Member
Originally Posted by FishRule
http:///forum/post/2980287
jpa, Thanks,
I will need all the help I can get. I have a few weeks off to do this project, so I will need to start it ASAP.
I would love a link to the local forum. I didn't know we had one for Michigan.
Is Cheato(sp) good enough for the micro or do you have a better suggestion? The only reason I was thinking turf skimming, was I thought it was the best method. I'm open to anything.
Cheato is good and so is calpera with a little research first. All this talk about the "new turf scrubber" is a bit of a joke IMO. This method was being used 30+ years ago. It does work at exporting some nutrients but IMO there are easier ways. It has also been documented that some users have had problems with it tinting your water green. I truly believe there is no one better piece of equipment for a reef tank than a good quality skimmer. I sent you the link for the forum.
 
fishrule

fishrule

Member
Originally Posted by jpa0741
http:///forum/post/2980294
Cheato is good and so is calpera with a little research first. All this talk about the "new turf scrubber" is a bit of a joke IMO. This method was being used 30+ years ago. It does work at exporting some nutrients but IMO there are easier ways. It has also been documented that some users have had problems with it tinting your water green. I truly believe there is no one better piece of equipment for a reef tank than a good quality skimmer. I sent you the link for the forum.
I got the link, thanks.
Well, I think I will do a two part sump then, one 30 gallon tank as a fuge for micro algae and one 30 gallon for the rest. Is that what you would suggest?
I would like to remove the powerheads from my Display, so I think I would like to use closed loops. What are some good pumps for this?
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
I'm with jpa, Skip the turf and get a good skimmer. There is no replacement. I ran my 55 reef with out a fuge. the skimmer was my only filtration. A must have IMHO.
Is the tank drilled?
 
fishrule

fishrule

Member
Originally Posted by TurningTim http:///forum/post/2980396
I'm with jpa, Skip the turf and get a good skimmer. There is no replacement. I ran my 55 reef with out a fuge. the skimmer was my only filtration. A must have IMHO.
Is the tank drilled?
I wish, it has a Tempered Glass bottom, so it couldn't get drilled. I tried to figure out if the back was also tempered, but the way the tank was built it was not possible to determine without ruining the structure of the tank, so I decided to skip it.
So Overflow it is. I need an overflow that wont loose suction as much as possible. Also one that will restart in the event of power failure.
I was going to build one similar to this https://www.saltwaterfish.com/ but I am open to anything.
I would prefer to build as much as possible, even the skimmer. I have a nice Drill Press at my disposal.
 
fishrule

fishrule

Member
I have been reading on the Michigan Forums and it seems that one 30 gallon sump is more than enough. I think I'm going to just build the standard sump I see the most.
It has a small chamber for the water in, baffles, middle section for fuge, baffles, skimmer chamber with return pump. Does this sound right? Is there a better setup I should build?
If I use this setup, what part of the sump should I mount the Fluidized bed filter?
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
If you have 2 and want to use them go ahead. More water volume the better. make one the sump w skimmer and the other a fuge. Pretty easy really.
Here is a pic of my DIY 1200 OF
With this I ran anywhere from a Mag 12 to a Dolphin DP900....

 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
The biggest thing is to match the pump with the OF. You want something strong enough so the bubbles from the front box get carried all the way through the U-tube. If the flow isn't strong enough then bubbles will collect at the top of the U-tube and it will eventually fail.
CPR just has a mechanical pump to remove any bubbles that collect. But I just like Physics over a mechanical pump.
 
fishrule

fishrule

Member
Plans have changed a little. I'm going to make a two part system under my tank. I'm getting two rubbermaid tubs that are about 15 gallons each. I would use standard glass tanks, but I can't drill them the way I want, so I'm using rubbermaids instead.
TurningTim, I want to build the overflow you pictured above and go with a mag 12 for my return. Do you know if I can get all of the materials at Home Depot or Lowe's?
I'm going to have one tank as a fuge and the other one will be for housing the skimmer and the return pump. Should I place the heater in the fuge or skimmer tank? Should I build any baffles in either container? (Tanks are in two separate compartments and will be gravity fed from the fuge to the skimmer tank)
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
I'm not quite sure I understand what you want to do? Are you stacking the tanks?
The PVC and eggcrate you can get at Lowes. The bulkheads and the U-tubes from your LFS. The acrylic you will have to get from a plastic's dealer. Look in the phone book. Yes Lowes and HD have acrylic, its junk and will not last on your tank very long. Spend a bit more money and get cast acrylic NOT extruded. You will also need Weld-on adhesive to solvent weld the seams. I use #4 and #16.
 
fishrule

fishrule

Member
Originally Posted by TurningTim
http:///forum/post/2983095
I'm not quite sure I understand what you want to do? Are you stacking the tanks?
The PVC and eggcrate you can get at Lowes. The bulkheads and the U-tubes from your LFS. The acrylic you will have to get from a plastic's dealer. Look in the phone book. Yes Lowes and HD have acrylic, its junk and will not last on your tank very long. Spend a bit more money and get cast acrylic NOT extruded. You will also need Weld-on adhesive to solvent weld the seams. I use #4 and #16.
My biggest problem with my setup is the stand. The stand looks beautiful, but it has three separate closed off compartments underneath instead of being one big open space. This is the main reason I have waited so long to sump my tank. If I am to setup a fuge and sump under the tank, I have to place separate tanks in each compartment and tie them together with plumbing by drilling holes between the compartments in the stand.
I do know of a local plastics store and I guess I could even build the containers (Sump/Fuge) myself. If I did build them myself, do I need a special saw or other special tools or do I need each piece pre-cut? Do I use the #4 and # 16 to bond them together or will I need something stronger? How thick should I get the acrylic pieces to build the sump and fuge?
Sorry for all the questions.
 
E

eric b 125

Guest
fishrule: usually only the bottom glass is tempered. you can figure it out by getting a cheap pair of sunglasses w/ polarized lenses, snap out the lenses and hold one on each side of the glass. when you look through the lenses (lens, glass, lens) tempered glass will create a rainbow effect.
 
fishrule

fishrule

Member
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/2983241
fishrule: usually only the bottom glass is tempered. you can figure it out by getting a cheap pair of sunglasses w/ polarized lenses, snap out the lenses and hold one on each side of the glass. when you look through the lenses (lens, glass, lens) tempered glass will create a rainbow effect.
I didn't know that. I will try it out. Thanks.
Edit: I thought if the glass was tinted green on the ends, it was tempered?
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
Originally Posted by FishRule
http:///forum/post/2983235
My biggest problem with my setup is the stand. The stand looks beautiful, but it has three separate closed off compartments underneath instead of being one big open space. This is the main reason I have waited so long to sump my tank. If I am to setup a fuge and sump under the tank, I have to place separate tanks in each compartment and tie them together with plumbing by drilling holes between the compartments in the stand.
I do know of a local plastics store and I guess I could even build the containers (Sump/Fuge) myself. If I did build them myself, do I need a special saw or other special tools or do I need each piece pre-cut? Do I use the #4 and # 16 to bond them together or will I need something stronger? How thick should I get the acrylic pieces to build the sump and fuge?
Sorry for all the questions.
A table saw will work just fine with a fine tooth blade (60-80 tooth). You will need to at least sand the edges to remove saw marks. I'm sure they could pre-cut also for a price.
Google search "bonding acrylic pins method" or search on this site. There are a bunch of guys that work with this stuff. I use the #4 (water thin) for the bonding and then I go back and put a small filet of the #16 (thick stuff) at the seams just in case.
The thickness of the acrylic will depend on how big the tanks are. I built a stacked system and made 2 26 gallon tanks out of 1/4" cast. Both also had tops for structure.
 
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