Help ICH ATTACK

[1journeyman]

There is not a choice... that's the problem. And that's why every Mod around here preaches QT on almost every thread.
Ich has a multi-phased life cycle. Just because you add medicine to a tank and the ich "disappears" does not mean you cured the parasite. I'm convinced the bulk of these "success" stories are in reality simply the parasite dropping off the fish naturally.
Hypo and/or copper (only in a QT) seem to be the only answer on every thread because they are the cure.
I've got a 180. I moved a 210 gallon a couple of years ago. I understand the insanity of catching fish in a large tank. That said, folks seem to have the idea that there must be another solution since catching their lifestock is too difficult. There really isn't.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Tokey
The reason you blue tang has ich is because you have him in to small of a tank 27gl is a death trap for him. Unless you take him back to where you bought him he is going to die.
Please think of the fishes welfare and do the right thing.
Yes and no.
a Tang should not be in a 27 gallon tank, BUT... ich is a parasite. While stressed fish may be more prone to getting the disease, the disease does not automatically appear on a stressed fish. Either the parasite was already in the tank from a previously infected fish, or the Tang itself had it already.

 

[janastasio]

Originally Posted by T316
"Been there, Done that...use hypo" seems to be the answer on every thread when dealing with this issue. BUT...most of you have a tank small enough to catch the fish. Some of you guys have a good point. With larger tanks, having over 200lbs of lr, multible fish & sometimes multible corals....HYPO ain't happnin' folks. It's impossible to catch the fish. Even if you did, by that time, you have stressed out everything that they die anyway.
One of Beth's threads said it best, that QT'ing everything new going in prevents this in the first place. But, when it does happen, I'm rapidly studying these alternative methods. What other choice is there in tanks this size

I have a 75/90 gallon tank with ALOT of live rock. Prob at least 100 lbs or more. I had to take out every piece of rock and put it into rubbermaid containers and buckets. Took about 6 hours, but all fish and coral and inverts are all happy and well. Fish have been in QT four weeks and no ich. It was worth the trouble. Plus, got to rearrange rock work. I end up doing that off and on anyway!

 

[t316]

I'm also convinced that these folks preaching alternative meds "cured their ich" is not a true cure. It's only part of the cycle you describe. There is no doubt that hypo/copper is the only way. But here's the way someone explained it to me. Ich in a tank is like herpes to a human (no, I don't, nor have I ever, had herpes), but, once you get it..there is no cure, you just manage it. Now we know that ich has a cure, but in larger tanks where you practically have to stress out (kill) everything else in the tank to "cure" it, is it not better to "manage" it?
Part of this management process that I am interested in is, what makes it resurface? Obviously STRESS. What is it about stress, and how can you practically eliminate it from your tank? There are the obvious (temp/params/etc) but it's like a fine science, which includes new tankmate intros, knowing who gets along w/ who, etc.
This is deep stuff regardless. I feel like I'm back in college and should have paid more attention

 

[t316]

Sorry JANATASIO...I wasn't trying to offend you, I was responding to the thread in general. You have great points...

I have a 270 gal., and I promise you, there is no way to catch all of those fish without a fishing rod, or shotgun. So I have been stuck w/ this delima in the past as to what to do...make the qt attempt (killing alot of them w/ the stress) or manage it. Not to mention the lr (which would not be as hard) or the inverts, which I have about lost count of.

 

[calvertbill]

The URL I listed above will lead you to perhaps the best article I've seen explaining the morphology and pathology of the ICH parasite.
Read and expand!
Oh! When catching fish the easiest and least stressful (for both you and the fish) method I've come up with is to invest about $18 and pick up a sheet of acrylic at Lowes or HD, cut it into partition sized pieces, and quarter your tank (reducing a 90 to a 22.5 gal area makes herding easier).

 

[janastasio]

Originally Posted by T316
Sorry JANATASIO...I wasn't trying to offend you, I was responding to the thread in general. You have great points...

I have a 270 gal., and I promise you, there is no way to catch all of those fish without a fishing rod, or shotgun. So I have been stuck w/ this delima in the past as to what to do...make the qt attempt (killing alot of them w/ the stress) or manage it. Not to mention the lr (which would not be as hard) or the inverts, which I have about lost count of.
Most definitely no offense taken! We're all here to post things to be helpful. I can see your concern, but wheres theres a will theres a way!

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Calvertbill
The URL I listed above will lead you to perhaps the best article I've seen explaining the morphology and pathology of the ICH parasite.
Read and expand!
Oh! When catching fish the easiest and least stressful (for both you and the fish) method I've come up with is to invest about $18 and pick up a sheet of acrylic at Lowes or HD, cut it into partition sized pieces, and quarter your tank (reducing a 90 to a 22.5 gal area makes herding easier).
great piece on ick every one should go to the link and print it out thanks

 

[t316]

I did print out a hard copy. Thanks calvertbill

This explains why we often "think" that once ick is in a tank, always in a tank (not true). Now I just have to figure out how to get the fish (easier said than done). Sounds like once the fish are out, all of the lr & inverts can stay in DT and let time kill it off w/out meds or hypo in the DT. Is this correct?

 

[calvertbill]

Originally Posted by T316
I did print out a hard copy. Thanks calvertbill

This explains why we often "think" that once ick is in a tank, always in a tank (not true). Now I just have to figure out how to get the fish (easier said than done). Sounds like once the fish are out, all of the lr & inverts can stay in DT and let time kill it off w/out meds or hypo in the DT. Is this correct?
Oh and as stupid as this may sound, I once had an almost immediate re-infestation which baffled me. I had followed all the rules and the beasties HAD to be dead. Turns out the girl who feeds my critters when I'm OOT was using the same net to feed brine shrimp with...same net...from main tank...to QT tank...and back...OOPS!

 

[rudedog40]

I'm another Ich Attack proponent. I had the same exact scenario as you with my new blue hippo. I didn't have a QT, nor did I want to spend the time and money setting one up. Also, you're talking about putting all your fish in a bare tank even smaller than your DT, potentially stressing them to the point where they all die. I used the Ich Attack as instructed. After the treatment, I started adding Seachem Garlic Guard and Metronidazole to the food. It's been over 6 weeks now, and no sign of ich in my tank. My puffer and green chromis never got it. My tang hasn't looked any better, and eats like a pig.
So if this type of treatment is ineffective, why don't I see signs of ich in my tank anymore? It's been over the 6 week justation period where ich is supposed to die without a host. So if there's no ich present on my fish, then isn't the ich completely gome from my tank? The problem with this theory is I've been told by many aquarist that have been in this hobby for multiple years, that ich is always present in the tank. To keep it in control, you have to maintain pristine water conditions, and try and keep a stress-free environment for your tank residents. Adding garlic to their diet also increases their immune system, which helps ward off ich attacks.
You can try the defacto cure everyone here recommends, and put all your fish in a QT and perform hypo. The first question for that is, do you have a QT tank set up? If you don't, then you're going to have to spend at least another $50 for one of these 10-gallon 'all-in-one complete' tanks from WalMart or *****, and get it cycled before you can put your fish in it. Once you do get it cycled, your fish will have to be hypo'ed in 1.009 salinity for three weeks. To insure you maintain the 1.009 salinity, you'll need to spend another $40 - $50 on a refractometer, since the plastic hydrometer is very inaccurate and won't work in a hypo situation. After the hypo is complete, the fish will need to stay in the QT for another three weeks to insure your DT is cured of the ich (this is based on the 6 week justation period of ich, and having a 'fishless' tank during this timeframe so the ich won't have a host to attach to.)

 

[srfisher17]

Re: Rudedog40 quote above..just didn't want to re-post the whole thing. Ich IS NOT always present in the tank, the article posted above does a great job de-bunking this myth. This (or Beth's ) article should be posted on every tank sold by every mfg. I'm repeating myself and others--but without a good understanding of this awful little parasite's life-cycle; treatment options probably don't make sense and lead to fatal shortcuts.

 

[m0nk]

I can't help but wonder how the original poster faired, they don't seem to have replied since starting the thread...

 

[1journeyman]

Guys (and gals), I'm so sorry. That link on Ich was a great read. Unfortunaetly it leads to a competitor's forum so it had to go.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Guys (and gals), I'm so sorry. That link on Ich was a great read. Unfortunaetly it leads to a competitor's forum so it had to go.
Beth's sticky in the disease section is also a great read.

 

[florida joe]

Since we are all here to learn and or teach things about this ever evolving hobby of ours is there a way to have someone who has copied the info on Ick from the link removed, leave out any mention of a link to a competitors web sight and have it posted permanently on our site it really is the most informative thing I have read on ick Between that and Beth’s sticky it is priceless info

 

[bugsy]

if someone could pm me the link I'd appreciate it

 

[calvertbill]

Originally Posted by florida joe
Since we are all here to learn and or teach things about this ever evolving hobby of ours is there a way to have someone who has copied the info on Ick from the link removed, leave out any mention of a link to a competitors web sight and have it posted permanently on our site it really is the most informative thing I have read on ick Between that and Beth’s sticky it is priceless info
I always thought the best way to be the preeminent authoritative SOURCE website would be to publish everything, regardless where it led. The goal should be to be the first place everyone thinks of when they are seeking info, no?

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
Re: Rudedog40 quote above..just didn't want to re-post the whole thing. Ich IS NOT always present in the tank, the article posted above does a great job de-bunking this myth. This (or Beth's ) article should be posted on every tank sold by every mfg. I'm repeating myself and others--but without a good understanding of this awful little parasite's life-cycle; treatment options probably don't make sense and lead to fatal shortcuts.

To each his own. I didn't read the article, but I'm just going by what several people who have been in this hobby for 10 to 20 years have told me. One individual told me a story of when he started a brand new 125 he put together. Moved sand and LR into it from a reef only (no fish) 200 tank he had. Moved some of his corals from the same 200 into it a couple months later. He then moved two fish he had in a 55 (a powder blue tang and a fairy wrasse) that were in that tank for almost a year, with absolutely no sign of ich, into the 125. A week later, the powder blue came down with ich. Where did it come from?

 

[t316]

DebraPurdy...Did any of this help with your problem? Sorry that your thread got hijacked and led into much discussion, but by posing your question, you hopefully have only helped others.

I have found some helpful info. here