Help! Ick issues!!!

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Noah's Nemo
http:///forum/post/3216897
i don't get the whole garlic thing.I mean ,if you are doing all the right steps and QTing is there still a need to add garlic?And why do people think it has some kind of miracle powers?Is it really needed?I did notice my seaweed selects have it added

Garlic seems to help the fish's immune system; but, I think, it has to be in a pure, fresh form to really do much. There does seem to be a lot of documentation that it works. Fish (and dogs) also love the stuff; so it is added to many foods to increase appetite. A lot of folks use it to get picky new fish eating. IMO, it can do a little of all these things, but is not a miracle worker. The problem with a lot of things (like UV and cleaner fish) that "work a little" is that give the user a false sense of security. By the time it becomes obvious that it isn't working, there is serious trouble.

 

[seamandrew]

Originally Posted by Noah's Nemo
http:///forum/post/3217253
OP=The original post maker....or poster.
Well,that sucks.IMO ,you need to get just the fish out, and just let the tank run as normal for 8 weeks till ick dies.What kind of fish are they?They will need hypo,someway .somehow.maybe a 10 gallon rubbermaid tub or something.I wish i could say ,oh yeah rid-ick,no-ick,ick-go away,or whatever will work,but...... it won't.Good luck..
Well......read post 8 and 11.
Well I have a purple firefish, a lyretail fang blenny, 3 orange striped cardinal fish, and the new neon goby (yellow striped). Well, I guess all I can do at this point is hope for the best and if they die, let the tank run for a few months sans fish (coral only) and hope the ick disappears!

 

[noah's nemo]

I wish you luck

 

[seamandrew]

The neon goby set up his cleaning station today. He's nipped off most of the spots on the lyretail blenny and on two of the cardinalfish. The firefish doesn't really have any spots except on one fin, but he's not letting himself get cleaned. The other cardinal fish, the big one, hasn't figured out the benefit yet! So weapon 1 seems to be working. Just got the Ich Attack today and I'm going to wait to see if this or the the No-Ich Marine by FishVet seems best. Should get the latter later today or tomorrow. Wish me luck!

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by seamandrew
http:///forum/post/3217969
The neon goby set up his cleaning station today. He's nipped off most of the spots on the lyretail blenny and on two of the cardinalfish. The firefish doesn't really have any spots except on one fin, but he's not letting himself get cleaned. The other cardinal fish, the big one, hasn't figured out the benefit yet! So weapon 1 seems to be working. Just got the Ich Attack today and I'm going to wait to see if this or the the No-Ich Marine by FishVet seems best. Should get the latter later today or tomorrow. Wish me luck!
I hate to tell you this, but the goby is only eating dead tissue---that's what the spot is. The parasite itself is (was) deeper in the fish. It will (has) emerge from the host fish, drop to the substrate in its next life-cycle phase, and release lots more parasites to continue the cycle. Here's a thread that has lots of good info, scroll down a ways for the ich info.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/vb/s...d.php?t=127007

 

[noah's nemo]

The life cycle must be broken,been there done that!

Its the only way...Then QT always,and everything.

 

[seamandrew]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3218456
I hate to tell you this, but the goby is only eating dead tissue---that's what the spot is. The parasite itself is (was) deeper in the fish. It will (has) emerge from the host fish, drop to the substrate in its next life-cycle phase, and release lots more parasites to continue the cycle. Here's a thread that has lots of good info, scroll down a ways for the ich info.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/vb/s...d.php?t=127007
Srfisher, I've read on multiple sources including reputable books that the neon goby picks at both the cyst and the dead skin.
In any event, the neon goby is only part of the attack. I've got a number of other things I'm trying in tandem.
If I lose the fish (and I hope not, they're great fish), then I'll leave the tank without fish for a few months before getting new ones in the hopes that the parasites will have starved without a host.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by seamandrew
http:///forum/post/3218468
Srfisher, I've read on multiple sources including reputable books that the neon goby picks at both the cyst and the dead skin.
In any event, the neon goby is only part of the attack. I've got a number of other things I'm trying in tandem.
If I lose the fish (and I hope not, they're great fish), then I'll leave the tank without fish for a few months before getting new ones in the hopes that the parasites will have starved without a host.
Those little gobies are fascinating to watch, regardless of what they eat. A lot of very reputable companies have been introducing reef-safe ich treatments, I hope it works for you.

 

[seamandrew]

Yup, I've got No-Ich Marine by FishVet which I started dosing this week and if that fails, I have Ich-Attack by Kordon as a second course... Fingers crossed...
Did lose my yellowtail fang blenny this morning, but he didn't eat a thing despite trying all sorts of foods. I don't think it was because of the ick.

 

[tang4me]

Originally Posted by seamandrew
http:///forum/post/3218468
Srfisher, I've read on multiple sources including reputable books that the neon goby picks at both the cyst and the dead skin.
In any event, the neon goby is only part of the attack. I've got a number of other things I'm trying in tandem.
If I lose the fish (and I hope not, they're great fish), then I'll leave the tank without fish for a few months before getting new ones in the hopes that the parasites will have starved without a host.
They do eat the cyst. The idea that they are only eating deadskin is ridiculous. They eat parasites period!

 

[noah's nemo]

Maybe so,but they do not CURE ick!Once you have it ,you always will ,unless you kill it.To me its a waste to sit back and think this little magic fish or shrimp is solving your ick issue.

 

[tang4me]

Originally Posted by Noah's Nemo
http:///forum/post/3219677
Maybe so,but they do not CURE ick!Once you have it ,you always will ,unless you kill it.To me its a waste to sit back and think this little magic fish or shrimp is solving your ick issue.
Who said they cure ick? They eat it, not cure it. It's mother natures way to rid fish of parasites. It may be a waste to you, but it wasn't to my fish.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by TANG4me
http:///forum/post/3219544
They do eat the cyst. The idea that they are only eating deadskin is ridiculous. They eat parasites period!
Cleaners may eat the cyst, if they get at it. There are many parasites, other then ich, that attach to a fish and are good food for the cleaners. However, if you do some research, I think you'll find that the ich parasite is buried in the flesh, much deeper than the reach of cleaners. It then secretes a substance to protect itself; the white spot eaten by cleaners.Having an ich parasite while on the reef is no big deal for a fish; but having an infestation of ich in the confines in a tank, cannot be cured by cleaners. If you can quote any reliable source that suggests cleaners will cure an ich infestation, please post the info. I've never heard of anything other than anecdotal comments.
Beth (IMO) is our resident expert in this area. I sure can't speak for her; but she has a great thread on ich and its treatment, note her description of the ich parasites defense mechanism. (https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/vb/s...d.php?t=127007) and Bob Fenner, arguably the most quoted author in the hobby, describes pretty much the same options for curing ich infestations(Hypo or copper) in his book "The Conscience Marine Aquarist". Both cures are a lot of work and a real pain....but they work. I wonder why these folks don't just say " toss in a few cleaners"?

 

[tang4me]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3220087
Cleaners may eat the cyst, if they get at it. There are many parasites, other then ich, that attach to a fish and are good food for the cleaners. However, if you do some research, I think you'll find that the ich parasite is buried in the flesh, much deeper than the reach of cleaners. It then secretes a substance to protect itself; the white spot eaten by cleaners.Having an ich parasite while on the reef is no big deal for a fish; but having an infestation of ich in the confines in a tank, cannot be cured by cleaners. If you can quote any reliable source that suggests cleaners will cure an ich infestation, please post the info. I've never heard of anything other than anecdotal comments.
Beth (IMO) is our resident expert in this area. I sure can't speak for her; but she has a great thread on ich and its treatment, note her description of the ich parasites defense mechanism. (https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/vb/s...d.php?t=127007) and Bob Fenner, arguably the most quoted author in the hobby, describes pretty much the same options for curing ich infestations(Hypo or copper) in his book "The Conscience Marine Aquarist". Both cures are a lot of work and a real pain....but they work. I wonder why these folks don't just say " toss in a few cleaners"?
Again, I never said cleaners cure ick. They will eat the parasite in the tomont stage. This is when the cyst has been formed protecting the tomites, but the cyst has not released from the fish. By eating the cyst, the tomites are not discharged from the cyst starting the cycle over again. Hypo attacks ich by causing the surface cysts to explode, and can be effective getting the tomites when they are most vunerable before they can host.
My point was a cleaner can be effective. Chemicals/hypo can be extremely stressful for a fish. If not done properly will kill the fish. So why not try mother natures way!!!!! I have witnessed with my own two eyes my cleaner eating the cysts. My fish willingly layed on it's side to allow the cleaner to do it's work.

 

[noah's nemo]

The thread that would'nt die

And my point is once ich is introduced to your DT ,it will always be their in some life form.Anytime you add a new fish it will probably get the ich.Why not kill it.Hypo is not as stressful as you may think.I did tons of reading on the process,and have found some LFS's even keep thier tanks at hypo levels just for the simple fact it works.The fish are fine,if done properly.All iknow is my DT is ich free

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by TANG4me
http:///forum/post/3223833
My point was a cleaner can be effective. Chemicals/hypo can be extremely stressful for a fish. If not done properly will kill the fish. So why not try mother natures way!!!!!
Mother Natures way is great; but Mother Nature doesn't put fish in a small space where they can be overwhelmed by the offspring of just on ich parasite.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Noah's Nemo
http:///forum/post/3223852
The thread that would'nt die

And my point is once ich is introduced to your DT ,it will always be their in some life form.Anytime you add a new fish it will probably get the ich.Why not kill it.Hypo is not as stressful as you may think.I did tons of reading on the process,and have found some LFS's even keep thier tanks at hypo levels just for the simple fact it works.The fish are fine,if done properly.All iknow is my DT is ich free

I don't think hypo is very stressful on healthy fish either. Neither is copper.

 

[tang4me]

Originally Posted by Noah's Nemo
http:///forum/post/3223852
The thread that would'nt die

And my point is once ich is introduced to your DT ,it will always be their in some life form.Anytime you add a new fish it will probably get the ich.Why not kill it.Hypo is not as stressful as you may think.I did tons of reading on the process,and have found some LFS's even keep thier tanks at hypo levels just for the simple fact it works.The fish are fine,if done properly.All iknow is my DT is ich free

Congrats!

 

[noah's nemo]

Why, thank you kind sir.It was done thru lots of patience and time and care.Not that i did not learn the hard way.....Oh wait, you were being sarcastic

i get it now.........................

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by Noah's Nemo
http:///forum/post/3223852
The thread that would'nt die

And my point is once ich is introduced to your DT ,it will always be their in some life form.Anytime you add a new fish it will probably get the ich.Why not kill it.Hypo is not as stressful as you may think.I did tons of reading on the process,and have found some LFS's even keep thier tanks at hypo levels just for the simple fact it works.The fish are fine,if done properly.All iknow is my DT is ich free

Great! I have QTd everything and treated all new fish with copper and a de-wormer for many years. I believe my DTs are parasite free and can't think of one fish loss that I would blame on my QT procedure. I sound like a broken record on this; but you would have a hard time finding any fish that hadn't been treated with copper on its journey from the reef to your tank. Almost all shippers, collectors, wholesalers, online dealers and many lfs run copper constantly. Hypo is just as good and well-tolerated; if done correctly.