help, i'm dying

[saltynewbie]

the nitrates are most likely the problem. you should do a water change with RO/DI water and keep an eye on the nitrates closely. what type of fish do you have in there? how long has your tank been cycled?
by the way - the "flower coral" you referred to looks like a cabbage leather (sinularia dura) from what i can tell..

 

[ophiura]

I do not think that the nitrates at 20 are the main problem. There are many tanks that do well with a higher level than that...the having nitrates at 0 phenomenon is a relatively recent one due to improved technology and understanding...but some quite successful reefs run with nitrates at 20 or higher, I am positive.
Lighting would not explain problems with other animals, like the featherduster...it may not fully explain why other less finicky corals, like the colt, are in trouble.
wbradenpt
Can you give a list of your corals...how long you've had them, where they are relatively in the tank...and how they are doing in general. How long have you had the corals in question before they started to deteriorate? How old is the tank? What is your feeding, dosing, water change schedule? And recent changes in your tank...or even in the area around your tank. How old are your lights?

 

[wbradenpt]

tank was setup on 10/01/04, with cleanings and 15% water changes every 3 weeks, with next one due next week. will attach recent photo and give more details.

 

[wbradenpt]

1Diamond GobyRec’d 10/13/04
1Lawnmower BlennyRec’d 10/13/04
1Scooter BlennyRec’d 10/13/04
Last seen 10/14/04
1Yellow TangRec’d 10/13/04
12Margarita SnailsRec’d 10/22/04
1Blood ShrimpRec’d 10/22/04
1Arrow CrabRec’d 10/22/04
1Banded Coral ShrimpRec’d 10/22/04
2Cleaner ShrimpRec’d 10/22/04
2Sand Sifting StarRec’d 10/22/04
1Sally Lightfoot CrabRec’d 10/22/04
12Astrea SnailRec’d 10/22/04
12Trochus SnailRec’d 10/22/04
35Hermit CrabRec’d 10/22/04
2Emerald CrabRec’d 10/29/04
1Emerald CrabRec’d 10/29/04
Dead 11/14/04
5Hermit CrabRec’d 10/29/04
1Orange Linkia StarRec’d 10/28/04
1Pink tip anemone (condylactis)Rec’d 11/06/04
1Leather - ToadstoolRec’d 11/09/04
1Mushroom Polyp - RicordeaRec’d 11/09/04
3Emerald CrabRec’d 11/09/04
1Colt Coral Rec’d 11/09/04
1Brittle Star (stowaway)Rec’d 11/09/04
1Cynarina CoralRec’d 11/09/04
5Scarlet Reef Hermit Crab
9Dwarf Red Tip Hermit Crab
7Turbo Snail (Mexico)
1Unidentified Snail (Stowaway)Rec’d 11/09/04
2Cleaner ClamRec’d 11/11/04
1Sally Lightfoot CrabRec’d 11/11/04
1Brain - Green OpenRec’d 11/11/04
1Feather DusterRec’d 11/11/04
1Fridmani - AquaculturedRec’d 11/09/04
3Blue/Green Reef ChromisRec’d 11/09/04
1Atlantic Blue TangRec’d 11/11/04
1Blue Tang, SolomonRec’d 11/09/04
1Elegance CoralRec’d 11/23/04
1Yellow Sun CoralRec’d 11/23/04
1Purple Mushroom CoralRec’d 11/24/04
1Flower CoralRec’d 11/24/04
1Hammer CoralRec’d 11/24/04
just so happens i keep a running list of the evidence against me.

 

[wbradenpt]

tank was setup with 180 pounds of live rock, and that seems like the last piece of good advice they gave me.

 

[wbradenpt]

also 8 or 9 bags of live sand.

 

[wbradenpt]

question is, what do i do from here?

 

[wbradenpt]

also, what's wrong with this starfish. has been doing this all day, not moving much either.

 

[ophiura]

Holy cow.
Never, ever spend another dollar at that store.
I would expect a stock list like that in, at best, a 6 month old tank...and that would, quite possibly, be stocking to quickly.
I would like to see a 30% change each month. I would also like to see you salinity a bit higher...around 1.025-1.026 for a reef tank, but probably not the cause of this.
This is just downright taking you for every dollar. Most of those corals just should not be in there. I think lighting could be an issue but I would think longer term....such a quick demise is just more likely to be tank conditions.
Also, do you have any surface flow? The top of the tank looks dead still....any powerheads in there?
Is it your camera, or is the tank cloudy? What is your pH and alkalinity? What are you dosing for calcium?
Man, I am not even sure what to say! But I would move that water change up to start.
Also, do you have a skimmer or can you list "other" equipment associated with filtration, water flow, etc.

 

[wbradenpt]

i have a protein skimmer in the sump underneath. just put in a carbon filter since the water does seem "not too clear." if that doesn't work i was thinking about adding a canister filter maybe in one of the overflow tanks. everything was going great until a day or two ago, when that coral started to deteriorate. going to fire up the ro machine here in a minute and clean the tank this weekend.

 

[wbradenpt]

ph is 8.0 to 8.2. don't know how to test for alkalinity, thought that was the same as ph. use kent liquid calcium to keep that at 400. used to have them cleaning the tank at $50 an hour, but put that to an end when it took them 2 hours just to clean the sand. won't buy anything else there if i can help it.

 

[wbradenpt]

the upper corners have the output from the sump, and water flow seems to be pretty good, but i don't mind spending the money to keep things alive. funny thing is that my QT is crystal clear probably since it has the canister filter.

 

[wbradenpt]

tank is clear now. used carbon filter in sump and it is working great. believe i had them professionally set up the tank? i kept asking them why it wasn't clear, and they just kept saying it would clear itself up. guess that's code word for "buy carbon."

 

[msd2]

Glad to hear things are improved. A few suggestions/questions. Is this going to be a fowlr tank? or are you intending to have corals and anemone? I ask because it greatly impacts how much lighting you need. IMHO if you intend on keep anemones and a variety of corals 720w wont be enough. Your tank seems tall, which means you will need MH for sure. It also means you lose a lot of light on the way to the bottom. To give you some idea of lighting, my total tank light output is 705wt on a 100 gallon tank. That will let you run most corals and anemones, barring sps.
You are right MH cannot be inches from the tank, its suggested 6-12 inches.

 

[ophiura]

Just how were they "Cleaning" the sand? And is it crushed coral? Alkalinity is important to keep track of especially if dosing calcium. It is a measure of the ability of the tank to withstand changes in pH, specifically from the addition of an acid (carbonic acid). It measures how stable the pH will be. Large fluctuations in pH can be fatal...but I would say it would show in the fish first. But there is a relationship between calcium, pH and alkalinity....I think there is a thread linked under the "informational threads" sticky or something.
Carbon, unfortunately, is not a cure all and is not generally run in reef tanks for long periods of time. If the tank is cloudy, it is important to potentially figure out why...carbon helps with it, but why is it there to begin with.
I would also add more circulation in the tank via powerheads. The top just looks dead still and the returns may not be enough in a taller tank.
I woould agree that long term you may wish to invest in more lighting, I just don't believe that was the immediate issue. I am very interested in the cloudiness. When did they clean the sand versus when you started seeing problems.
Are you dosing anything other than calcium?

 

[wbradenpt]

i have 8 or 9 bags of live sand. the only thing i don't like is that they spread it over the entire bottom of tank, then put rocks right over it. i'm thinking of taking everything out and moving sand to front and middle, not having sand underneath rocks anymore. can't clean it with rocks on top of it. cloudiness is gone for now, since i put that sheet of carbon in the filter box above the bio balls. here's what it looks like, before and after...
before...

 

[wbradenpt]

after...

 

[wbradenpt]

things look better, but tank is so tall i'm not sure if i'll be able to put enough lighting under the canopy. i moved most of the corals higher up in the tank for now. don't have that much room under canopy, maybe only 3 7/8" high hood will fit properly. don't mind spending the money, but not even sure if 720w metal halides will even do the trick. tank water is 28" deep.

 

[wbradenpt]

i use quite a few of the kent supplements, like iodine, strontium, essential elements, coralvite, tech cb buffer a and b, calcium. have been using combovite, which is spectravite and blackpowder - supposed to make stuff grow out of live rock.
they were cleaning sand with vaccuum thing.

 

[wbradenpt]

might buy another tank eventually, probably real wide but not tall. want to have one for fish only, the other for reef. seems to be making more sense to make the tall one fish only with live rock, and the reef tank the shorter and wider one, will be easier to get lighting to work that way. any more suggestions?