Help! My tank crashed

[jenni1979]

I just lost everything in my tank except my Starfish and my hermit crabs. I am not sure what happened. I went out of town for three days over the weekend and I got back and my yellow tang was dead and decomposed. I removed what was left of him right away and did a 40% water change. I tested the water and the nitrates went down just a little. The ammonia was still high at 0.5 though. The next day I lost my dwarf lionfish so I went and bought some more live rock and live sand to help my tank out some. I only had about 2 inches of sand and 40 pounds of live rock in my 55 gal tank to start with. After I finished, I had about 4 to 5 inches of sand and 60 pounds of live rock. Then today I lost my other lionfish, royal gramma, and two damsels. That leaves me with almost nothing My nitrates had always been a little high, about 20 ppm but my ammonia was 0 until that yellow tang died. I am not sure if it was wondering if the long-term nitrate problem could have caused it or maybe something killed the yellow tang and just made my water worse. Well, my question is, after all of this happening, how long is it going to take before I can add more fish to the tank and what should I do in the meantime? Water changes of course, but is there anything else I can do? And does this mean the tank has to cycle again
I ordered some corals off ---- and I wanted to let the guy know about how long to hold them for me. I haven't paid for them yet, but he isn't very understanding and will not let me get out of not purchasing them. He said he will hold them though.

 

[nick17]

Sorry to hear Jenni1979..
I sure hope mine doesn't do that! LOL
I just started about a month ago.. so..
I hope you can recover some things that you lost!
-Nick

 

[thomas712]

I would not call nitrates at 20 ppm a long term problem by any stretch of the imagination.
With the ammonia, new liverock and livesand I believe that you will find that your tank is cycling again, to what extend all depends.
With the addition of another 2 to 3 inches of sand you have burried your infauna that existed in your sandbed, I doubt that many will survive such a burial. The live rock will help reseed it though. What type of livesand? does it have pods, worms and other critters? or was it just bacterialy active?
On the bright side: With the addition of the liverock and livesand you will have a better filtration going for you as it matures.
What you can do for now is continue to monitor the system, get confirmation tests from your lfs, water changes if necessary. Run fresh carbon now if you have it. Let the mini cycle take its course but watch it closley.
Use a skimmer
Thomas

 

[aileena]

Sorry to hear about that....
Your tank will likely have to cycle all over again...especially if that tang was in there for a while dead...I would wait for the cycle to complete all over again...do 5%water change everyother day until the cycle is over...
dont get those frags though...my 2 cents

 

[jenni1979]

With the ammonia, new liverock and livesand I believe that you will find that your tank is cycling again, to what extend all depends.
The rock was fully cured so why would it cause a problem? The sand was live also. It did not have critters or anything because it was that stuff in a bag.
The problem I think began with that yellow tang dying. The ammonia went up from there. I then bought the live rock and sand because I posted a question about my nitrate problem on here and people told me to add it to help my nitrates. I didn't know it would make things worse

 

[thomas712]

In an established tank adding to much live rock at once changes your bio load and it needs to restablaize, least thats what I believe adding it slowly helps smooth things out, not so drastic of a change. I see nothing wrong with the sand but it might change your ph for a while.
Maybe if we chant Broomer, Broomer, Broomer he will come out and give us a better answer than my dyslexic style brain can give.
Thomas

 

[jenni1979]

Well, I am not sure. I only added about 20 pounds of live rock and waited two days later and added 20 pounds of live sand. I guess I just have to wait it out now no matter what caused it.

 

[beaslbob]

Sorry to hear about your loss, and yes it has happened to me when I was first setting up my new tank. The best thing to do is to allow the tank to cycle again. If you have no more fish, it should take 1-2 weeks (or less) for the nitrItes to return to 0.0. Then try adding some "expendible" fish such as Mollies. In my 55g I added 5 to cycle the tank. In about a month it should all stablize and balance out. If you have some fish still left, then stop all feeding for a week. Again sorry to hear.

 

[tlk]

Originally posted by beaslbob
Sorry to hear about your loss, and yes it has happened to me when I was first setting up my new tank. The best thing to do is to allow the tank to cycle again. If you have no more fish, it should take 1-2 weeks (or less) for the nitrItes to return to 0.0. Then try adding some "expendible" fish such as Mollies. In my 55g I added 5 to cycle the tank. In about a month it should all stablize and balance out. If you have some fish still left, then stop all feeding for a week. Again sorry to hear.
I am stuggling with the idea of an "expendible fish". The idea here is to create an environment where your animals with thrive, NOT die. To sacrifice one fish"for the greater good" is the wrong mentality IMO.
Sorry to hear about the loss Jenni. When you begin your new cycle, put your remaining creatures in a separte tank and start a new cycle in your main tank using a piece of raw shrimp.
Try to find out the cause of the crash as well so it won't happen again.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by tlk
I am stuggling with the idea of an "expendible fish". The idea here is to create an environment where your animals with thrive, NOT die. To sacrifice one fish"for the greater good" is the wrong mentality IMO.
The idea is that it is better to lose a $2.00 molly than a $100.00 anything. I agree that fish should thrive and all five of the mollies were happy thriving and making babies in the tank.
Sorry to hear about the loss Jenni. When you begin your new cycle, put your remaining creatures in a separte tank and start a new cycle in your main tank using a piece of raw shrimp.
I am very concerned about starting out a new tank for any remaining fish. If there is an established tank even at the LFS for the fish then great and that is a very good idea and would be the best for any remaining fish. I do not agree with the raw shrimp method.
Try to find out the cause of the crash as well so it won't happen again.
The cause of the crash (and mine) is that the bioload exceeded the tank's capacity. Now you need to let the tank catch up so the bioload can be supported. And then go slow to slowly build up the tanks capacity.

 

[crazy8]

Personally, (unless I just skipped over it) I am curious as to how long you had the tang and some of the other fish. Maybe the tang was never healthy and died normally and he took out the other fish with the toxic buildup -- especially since you pointed out he was decomposing already. I personally wish you hadn't run out and bought all that LR and LS before the other fish died. Although, I think you will now be better off for it.
Also, as for that coral, I think you are doing the right thing. Your tank will tank some time to add a coral I would think. I don't have the lighting required for these, but from everything I read water quality must be superb to have these in your tank.

 

[broomer5]

Jenni1979
In my opinion ...
You had a relatively large number of fish for a 55 gallon tank.
1 Tang
2 Lions
1 Gramma
2 Damsels
Whatever caused the tang to die - could be a number of things.
Was anyone watching or (over)feeding the tank while you were gone ?
Having it die and set in the tank over the weekend, decomposing and giving off ammonia no doubt caused the other fish to stress.
Depending on your pH at the time, the ammonia could have been less toxic or more toxic. Ammonia in the tank in any event is not so good.
Then adding the liverock and livesand - may have compounded the problem. Even though the rock was cured - you almost always get "some" die off. Even if you just bring it home from the LFS. Some die off occurs. Die off leads to ammonia again.
No telling what condition the bacteria are in inside and on the live rock. We all assume they are there - and that it will help with the nitrogen cycle. Eventually we know the rock will contain living colonies of bacteria - but never really know on new rock.
I'd say remove any fish you still have and either isolate them in another tank ( QT ) or take back to store.
The bacteria will have to adjust to the upset.
Once the ammonia/nitrite are zero again ( and they will be ) do a water change.
Then - let the tank settle for awhile.
You will not have to cycle the tank again in the traditional way.
You should not need to add mollies, or a raw shrimp or anything.
The bacterial population is already there - it just got overloaded.
Let it catch up as others mentioned.
You should be able to add "A" fish ( one ) once things are back to normal readings. This may take several weeks though - so try and wait it out.
Then go slow as I'm sure you know.
Sorry to hear of your troubles.

 

[ryebread]

Beaslbob- Do you get commison everytime you recommend a molly to someone?

 

[tlk]

LOL - Do you feel better now?

Originally posted by beaslbob
The idea is that it is better to lose a $2.00 molly than a $100.00 anything. I agree that fish should thrive and all five of the mollies were happy thriving and making babies in the tank.

The idea is not to lose anything in the first place, $2.00 or $100 fish is STILL a living animal (last time I checked)

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by tlk LOL - Do you feel better now?
Originally posted by beaslbob
The idea is that it is better to lose a $2.00 molly than a $100.00 anything. I agree that fish should thrive and all five of the mollies were happy thriving and making babies in the tank.
The idea is not to lose anything in the first place, $2.00 or $100 fish is STILL a living animal (last time I checked)
And so was a shrimp. With a living molly you are establishing a system to handle urea, carbon dioxide, slime, and other wastes, not just decaying flesh. And those levels are constand instead of peaking and then decreasing.
I do not get a commission on mollies . It has been my experience the people new to salt do not realize mollies can be used in saltwater.

 

[overanalyzer]

Originally posted by beaslbob
And so was a shrimp. With a living molly you are establishing a system to handle urea, carbon dioxide, slime, and other wastes, not just decaying flesh. And those levels are constand instead of peaking and then decreasing.

Interesting - but when you start a tank you are actually conditioning it to handle ammonia. Then once those levels chemicals evens out (ammonia, Triates and trates) you add a fish - the ONE fish then conditions the system to handle the urine, CO2, slime/scale slough off/what not and other wastes.
When using a Molly (or Damsel or some $100 cycling fish) you are speeding up the process.
Both ways work, but one uses a piece of dead shrimp (so sad - now pace me the cocktail sauce) that costs roughly $0.45. If you use a fish then you are basically making peace with tossing $3 to $12 out of a window.
I know that those costs are peanuts comparatively - but more importantly it takes patience to use the shrimp method.
If you don't have patience with the cycle - what will you have patience with??
Sorry this is getting way off topic ...

 

[jenni1979]

Personally, (unless I just skipped over it) I am curious as to how long you had the tang and some of the other fish. Maybe the tang was never healthy and died normally and he took out the other fish with the toxic buildup -- especially since you pointed out he was decomposing already. I personally wish you hadn't run out and bought all that LR and LS before the other fish died. Although, I think you will now be better off for it.
I had the tang for about two months. He always seemed fine and healthy, but I am not a fish expert so I am not sure. I am just saying that he looked fine and had no changes in his color or skin. I just got the lionfish and royal gramma last Monday. The Dwarf lion I had for about three months, and the damsels I had almost four months.
Was anyone watching or (over)feeding the tank while you were gone ?
I have an automatic fish feeder that gives just a little flake food to them while I am gone at the same time everyday. I fed the two lions before I left on Thursday and I came back Sunday evening and fed them again, so it was only two days that the lions did not eat. But, no one was watching them. The only thing I have in there right now is a starfish and a few hermits and they all seem to be doing fine, but I will see if I can have them watch it for me for a couple weeks in their tank. I don't know if they would or not.
I do not get a commission on mollies . It has been my experience the people new to salt do not realize mollies can be used in saltwater.
Yea, I had no idea that you could use mollies in a saltwater tank. Would they live in a saltwater tank? I know mine is all out of wack so I know they might die
The lionfish and the gramma I am going to get store credit for . Who knows, maybe those fish were sick and I added them to my tank and it made everyone sick. It is really hard to say. I really need to set up a separate quarantine tank for that purpose. I have a 10 gal so I might try that next time. I need to purchase the accessories though. I might also have the neighbor come check on my tank while I am gone next time.
I guess we all learn from our mistakes. This is a very expensive hobby and I just need to be more careful next time. Thanks a lot everyone!

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by Jenni1979
I
Yea, I had no idea that you could use mollies in a saltwater tank. Would they live in a saltwater tank? I know mine is all out of wack so I know they might die

Well first let the ammonia and nitrItes get back to 0.0. Yes they will live and thrive in saltwater-- much better than in fresh water. About the only thing that killed my first set was ammonia pegging the test with water white and coudy from the ammonia spike. After that even high nitrItes would not kill them. Just aclimate them slowly to the saltwater. wait a couple of days and test the water. if nitrItes are up then wait until nitrItes go down before feeding them.

 

[jenni1979]

Okay. I don't want to make the same mistakes again. I don't know if I added too many fish and if that made my tank die, but with corals and live rock, how many fish could I keep in my 55 gal tank? I was thinking of staying away from the Lionfish this time because they are messy and cause high nitrates. How would a purple tang, percula clown, and a royal gramma do together? I am not sure if the purple tang will do well. It seems like I heard that they need to be in a 100 gal tank or larger. If not, could I put a hippo blue tang in there? Don't worry, I am going to wait until my water quality is perfect before I start adding again, and yes I know to do it slowly, not all at once.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by Jenni1979
Okay. I don't want to make the same mistakes again. I don't know if I added too many fish and if that made my tank die, but with corals and live rock, how many fish could I keep in my 55 gal tank? I was thinking of staying away from the Lionfish this time because they are messy and cause high nitrates. How would a purple tang, percula clown, and a royal gramma do together? I am not sure if the purple tang will do well. It seems like I heard that they need to be in a 100 gal tank or larger. If not, could I put a hippo blue tang in there? Don't worry, I am going to wait until my water quality is perfect before I start adding again, and yes I know to do it slowly, not all at once.
I think you are on the right track now. Tangs need larger tanks and are sensitive to ICH. I lost my first tang but three months later i added a yellow tang and he has done great. Again wait for the tank to settle for the more delicate fish. Tangs also need to be the last fish added. tend to be the ruler of any tank they are in. And the grow large so the final size is way too big for a 55g.
I definately agree with the lionfish. Have heard they eat the other fish.
Again macro algae or other plant life to handle any nitrAtes.
Others can advise on other fish. I am still experimenting.