help, need advice, brand new hobbist

[angel eyes]

I have just moved into a new town and finally found a saltwater shop. They are offering to set up everything. A 55 gal display tank with a 20gal for sump, if I understand correctly. The stand will also be provided..they also the pkg would include live sand and rock. What is your opinion about using their sand and live rock? The tanks looked good in the store, but they have only been open about 2-3 months..$700 was for everything (2 tanks, stand, filter, sand and rock) IS this a good deal ?
Sorry to be so long winded..but don't want to waste $700 !!!
Also have found a web site:reeftimber.com
that sells a specially designed shelf for corals that is to supposedly reduce the amount of base rock and greatly improve water circulation. Anyone have any opinions?

 

[jtoliver]

What about lights? Remember, on a reef tank, that is a very expensive part.

 

[clayton]

I don't know how good the deal is but you might want to set the system out yourself. You would learn more about what you are doing and probably save yourself some fish later on.
I would also wait a few weeks before you put much live rock and sand in - the raise in levels of ammonia and nitrites during the maturing cycle will kill most of the goodies off!
Good luck, keep us posted....

 

[jimi]

You wont kill the live rock if it has been cured at their store and if it is, your tank may not cycle at all or very little. It may pay to let them set it up and explain to you as they are going. Most people make their mistakes and kill fish during the first year or so in the hobby but the best thing you can do is read as much as you can to save yourself money and grief in the future.

 

[clayton]

Hi Jimmi, live rock is 'live' due to the delicate animals that live on it. The colonisation of bactria is something completely different. You can use a piece of dead fish to cycle you tank if you wanted.
Originally posted by jimi:
You wont kill the live rock if it has been cured at their store and if it is, your tank may not cycle at all or very little. It may pay to let them set it up and explain to you as they are going. Most people make their mistakes and kill fish during the first year or so in the hobby but the best thing you can do is read as much as you can to save yourself money and grief in the future.

 

[angel eyes]

Clayton, have you ever heard of reef timber? It is a company/product sold over the internet. It is a special designed shelving unit for coral. The shelf is suppose to help improve circulation and minimize the amount of base rock needed in reef aquariums. It was supposedly designed by scientist and since I know you are well versed in saltwater aquariums/hobby, I would be very interested in your opinion in this product.
can be found on the web at reeftimber.com.

 

[angel eyes]

oopss. make that www.reeftimber.com thanks for sharing the know how

 

[jimi]

Hi Clayton, you are absolutely correct but because the live rock has the nitrifying bacteria on it you will not kill off that many of the critters on the rock. All Im saying is if you want a tank with live rock or eventually a reef, it is best to start with cured live rock as you can usually avoid a cycle because the bacteria colony is already somewhat established thus stopping any large ammonia spikes that would kill off your critters. If you choose to cycle your tank with dead shrimp you can do that but if you then add uncured live rock to that tank you will cycle again.

 

[clayton]

You will only get spikes if surface area or oxygen is limiting the bacteria. Sudden increases in biological load can also cause this but it's something you shouldnt do anyway.
Originally posted by jimi:
Hi Clayton, you are absolutely correct but because the live rock has the nitrifying bacteria on it you will not kill off that many of the critters on the rock. All Im saying is if you want a tank with live rock or eventually a reef, it is best to start with cured live rock as you can usually avoid a cycle because the bacteria colony is already somewhat established thus stopping any large ammonia spikes that would kill off your critters. If you choose to cycle your tank with dead shrimp you can do that but if you then add uncured live rock to that tank you will cycle again.

 

[clayton]

I think they have good and bad points. If they are the type that leave a large space behind them for water then this helps for circulation and preventing dead areas for sure. It also means you have more water as less is displaced by mountains of rock which makes your tank more stable. On the down side, there is far less surface area for aerobic and particularly anaerobic bacteria than if it was built up with live rock.
Overall, I would say live rock, or at least part live rock with limestone/tuffa rock underneath is far better, although you could build the live rock on top of the background which could work very well.
Originally posted by angel eyes:
Clayton, have you ever heard of reef timber? It is a company/product sold over the internet. It is a special designed shelving unit for coral. The shelf is suppose to help improve circulation and minimize the amount of base rock needed in reef aquariums. It was supposedly designed by scientist and since I know you are well versed in saltwater aquariums/hobby, I would be very interested in your opinion in this product.
can be found on the web at reeftimber.com.

 

[mr . salty]

Isn't this called NEW TANK SYNDROME?? When you throw the bio system way out of ballance and cause a compleate recycle.
Originally posted by clayton:
You will only get spikes if surface area or oxygen is limiting the bacteria. Sudden increases in biological load can also cause this but it's something you shouldnt do anyway.

 

[clayton]

Never called it that myself but I guess it's the same thing
Originally posted by MR . SALTY:
Isn't this called NEW TANK SYNDROME?? When you throw the bio system way out of ballance and cause a compleate recycle.

 

[broomer5]

Angel Eyes,
Personally I agree with others here about setting up your tank yourself. It will allow you to learn more and enjoy the hobby right from the start. There is a great deal of satisfaction doing it yourself. As far as a good deal for $700.00, all depends on how much live rock and live sand, quality of filters and sump pumps, etc. Sorry can't help ya there.
But most people will agree, it is always wise to go slowly ... meaning do not ever add anything, be it fish, live rock, water changes or inverts ..whatever.. in large amounts to your tank all at once. If you use live sand or substrate, fill the tank with good quality salt water, let is settle a day or two, test for water paramaters, pH,temp,salinity,etc. and feel that you are ready, then add a hardy fish or two ... or some good quality cured live rock, maybe 5 pounds or so, and just monitor the water levels for the tell tale signs, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. When you have seen the tank cycle for yourself, you will learn a lot about the nitrogen cycle, and have first hand experience. Once this cycle is completed, you can be assured that you have the necessary bacteria established in your filter, substrate, rock, etc. If you add additional fish or inverts during this cycling phase, you most likely will lose them due to "New Tank Syndrome". Later on if you add too many new creatures all at once .. you will have overloaded the balance .. and new bacteria will need to be born to handle the additional ammonia/bioload. If you lose fish then .. it is just cause you added too much too fast. Sorry for the long reply, it's just what I have learned so far myself.
Brian

 

[angel eyes]

once the tank has cycled i planned on adding one or two fish biweekly or maybe once a month. Is this too much too soon ???
Also second ? is. I know that is it is always best to add the territorial fish last but clowns and damsels are the cheapest to start off in case they die... so should I go ahead and use them but rearrange the "furniture" before adding any other fish?

 

[mr . salty]

Angel eyes, You got it. Add the fish slowly,like you said. I wouldn't worry too much about adding clowns early. But might I suggest getting Green Chromis instead of Damsels. They are alot less agressive. I like mine,and plan on adding more of them to my 125. STEVE

 

[clownfish]

I don't like the idea of "reef timber". You will have considerably less bacterial action, which means possible nitrate trouble. With a normal mountain of rock, the rocks on the bottom will break down nitrates. Another major problem I see with this stuff is fish disappearance. Fish will always look for new places to go, and they could get trapped back there and die. The third problem is waste falling through the rocks and into the void where it can't be removed without taking the rocks and reef timber apart.