Help, Not sure why but Ick is back!

[barracuda1]

WHERE DID 5MINUTES COME FROM like I said one minute. Anyway I have the answer to why you are where u are with disease; 3 months ago something happened to give you the protozoan killing fish. the proto Iived on the alage making me think it is a dinoflagget aka plant which was eaten by herbivores and that is why tangs got infected not hawkfish because they were carnivores NO COPPER and sorry malachite green would cure the disease but I don`t have details so look it up

 

[barracuda1]

add a thing called Marine probotic Formula to the main tank that shouId fix problems there keep posted

 

[sepulatian]

Barracuda1, with all due respect, just because a medication says it will do something, does not mean that it will. Google Amyloodinium. You will find, on any site that you would like, that copper is the correct treatment for it. Copper will also kill ich.
confusedfishy, buy Cupramine and a copper test kit by Seachem.

 

[confusedfishy]

Originally Posted by Barracuda1
http:///forum/post/2679810
WHERE DID 5MINUTES COME FROM like I said one minute. Anyway I have the answer to why you are where u are with disease; 3 months ago something happened to give you the protozoan killing fish. the proto Iived on the alage making me think it is a dinoflagget aka plant which was eaten by herbivores and that is why tangs got infected not hawkfish because they were carnivores NO COPPER and sorry malachite green would cure the disease but I don`t have details so look it up
Okay-so what you are saying is that the parasite is living in the hair algae in my tank and it doens't bother the fish that don't eat it but infects the fish that do eat it. Will it infect the fish that don't eat it once the others get sick? Last time, I lost two tangs but also a engineer goby and a black clown which didn't eat it. We can't seem to get rid of the algae except when it is eatten. We have gotten a new larger protein skimmer and water quality is the same in this tank and my other DT which is without algae and ich both. When we purchased this tank it was full of this algae and we cleaned it out as much as possible but it came right back. Where would I look and what key words would I use to search online to find out more about this?

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Barracuda1
http:///forum/post/2679810
WHERE DID 5MINUTES COME FROM like I said one minute. Anyway I have the answer to why you are where u are with disease; 3 months ago something happened to give you the protozoan killing fish. the proto Iived on the alage making me think it is a dinoflagget aka plant which was eaten by herbivores and that is why tangs got infected not hawkfish because they were carnivores NO COPPER and sorry malachite green would cure the disease but I don`t have details so look it up
It has NOTHING to do with what the fish eat, at all. Hawks are disease resistant, not to mention omnivores, just as eels and certain other fish are. Hawks can get velvet or anything else, they are just resistant.

 

[sepulatian]

Wait, have we even verified that this was velvet at all? I am sorry. Can you post a picture of this fish? The symptoms were white salt like spots, were they not? What makes you think that this is velvet?

 

[confusedfishy]

Here is a picture, not sure if it will help because I couldn't get a very good one, let's just say that the bonding period between the fish and I has gone down the hill after catching him tonight, that rock you see is a fake rock in the qt that he loves to hide in, he won't come out. Hopefully, you can see a few spots on him...

 

[sepulatian]

I can see a few by his nose. You quarantined your new corals for three weeks correct? Copper will treat ich or velvet. Seeing this, I really think it is just ich though. You can do hypo on all of them in the 20. If it is velvet then you will know shortly. I don't think that it is. His color is great, he just has some spots.

 

[al mc]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2679704
Can you post some information that says Malachite will treat both? Malachite does not treat marine ich, let alone marine velvet. Copper is the treatment for both. Tangs most certainly can be treated with copper. I believe AL MC can attest to that.
Sorry, I went to bed early and missed some of these posts. Yes, I do QT and use hyposalinity on all new fish. I have had one, a Hippo Tang, go through hypo and ended up having Ich reappear (luckily while I was returning the salinity in the QT to normal levels, not after added him to my DT). Was the Ich resistent or did I not pay attention to the salinity properly? I do not know. But, I posted a thread about what I should do...hypo again or copper.
Beth suggested Cupramine and it worked well. My memory is not the best, but I believe that was about a year ago and the Hippo is thriving in my DT.
Just my experience.
****Confusedfishy**** This is a royal pain I know. It is frustrating to treat a disease in a prescribed way only to have it resurface. Patience and persistence are true virtues in this hobby.
I spent a few minutes before posting researching both 'Ich' and 'Amy'. Copper
is the treatment of choice for both, when you do not know which problem you have. I have not treated a case of 'Amy' before so I can not give first hand experience with that disease. I have relied on Beth, Sep and Noga's book 'Fish Diseases: Diagnosis and Treatment' for treatment options when I have not personally dealt with a problem before.
Key with any treatment: Treat in a well cycled QT. I did NOT lose my biologic cycle using cupramine (I was surprised..and happy about that).
If your QT is not well cycled/hastily set up up you are just as likely to lose fish from ammonia/trite toxicity as from the disease you are trying to treat.

 

[barracuda1]

clarifications; my solution to problem merely was a solution that was credable solution and it would explain the reason why the tangs were imeaditly exposed and spread it to other fish and as stated by sapultian hawkfish are more resistant and the probotic will at any rate kill the pathogens finally google "copper's effect on tangs" and use different wording you will see my arguement

 

[barracuda1]

Find a cupramine that is not copper based and I guss that would cover it if not here are a list of others
malachite Green (I'll provide info if needed)
controled metronidazole
certian sterile dips
also when treating the main tank products like meth. blue and probotics will cure it

 

[confusedfishy]

I went to the 2 small lfs this morning and they don't have any of the medications mentioned above. I am going to order them all to have on hand for now and in the future. I can only hope they get to me fast. I have started hypo because I don't know what else I can do without the medicine, also feeding soaked mysis and nori in fresh garlic. I think the freshwater dip helped some, they are swimming around okay and willing to eat still.
Any other suggestions I can do for now? Once I receive the Cupramine should I try to use it and should I take them out of the hypo?

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by confusedfishy
http:///forum/post/2680285
I went to the 2 small lfs this morning and they don't have any of the medications mentioned above. I am going to order them all to have on hand for now and in the future. I can only hope they get to me fast. I have started hypo because I don't know what else I can do without the medicine, also feeding soaked mysis and nori in fresh garlic. I think the freshwater dip helped some, they are swimming around okay and willing to eat still.
Any other suggestions I can do for now? Once I receive the Cupramine should I try to use it and should I take them out of the hypo?
If you are treating them with hypo then you may as well continue the hypo treatment. It takes 48 hrs to reach hyposaline conditions. It takes a week to raise the SG back up. You cannot treat them with both hypo and copper. Copper is lethal to saltwater fish in hyposaline conditions. It can take up to a week for all of the spots to be gone on your fish with either treatment. If you decide that you would rather use copper then be sure to bring your SG back up slowly over the course of a week.
The fresh garlic will help.

 

[barracuda1]

So now treat fish and what medications did you order besides the one listed if any

 

[confusedfishy]

I am going ahead and doing the hypo, if the parasites don't completely fall off after 1 week-2 weeks I will begin to raise salinity over a week and then use the Cupramine. I am going to leave the tank fishless for at least 6 weeks, probably 8 weeks. I am looking into information about adding the Marine Probotic Formula to the DT as well. Methylene Blue in case I need it. These stores are very weak around here, they just sell tanks, fish, and alittle flake food...nothing that specific. Thank God I found this website!
Cupramine
Copper Test kit by Seachem
Marine Probotic Formula
Methylene Blue

 

[confusedfishy]

[Key with any treatment: Treat in a well cycled QT. I did NOT lose my biologic cycle using cupramine (I was surprised..and happy about that).
If your QT is not well cycled/hastily set up up you are just as likely to lose fish from ammonia/trite toxicity as from the disease you are trying to treat.
Thank goodness I have a well cycled QT, it cycled the first time I had ich and I added my new fish to it afterward and experienced a little cycle then. I also was able to get some of the amquel you mentioned to me in another thread for emergency use.

 

[confusedfishy]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2679883
Key with any treatment: Treat in a well cycled QT. I did NOT lose my biologic cycle using cupramine (I was surprised..and happy about that).
If your QT is not well cycled/hastily set up up you are just as likely to lose fish from ammonia/trite toxicity as from the disease you are trying to treat.
Thank goodness I have a well cycled QT, it cycled the first time I had ich and I added my new fish to it afterward and experienced a little cycle then. I also was able to get some of the amquel you mentioned to me in another thread for emergency use.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by confusedfishy
http:///forum/post/2680517
I am going ahead and doing the hypo, if the parasites don't completely fall off after 1 week-2 weeks I will begin to raise salinity over a week and then use the Cupramine. I am going to leave the tank fishless for at least 6 weeks, probably 8 weeks. I am looking into information about adding the Marine Probotic Formula to the DT as well. Methylene Blue in case I need it. These stores are very weak around here, they just sell tanks, fish, and alittle flake food...nothing that specific. Thank God I found this website!
Cupramine
Copper Test kit by Seachem
Marine Probotic Formula
Methylene Blue
I have to be honest here, the Probiotic sounds like another bottle of nothing. Google it. I have used Methylene Blue. It works much like a FW dip does but without the stress. You add it to a bucket of saltwater for a dip. Be sure not to add Methylene to any tank. It absolutely WILL kill your biological bacteria.
Your plan sounds good. Keep us updated.

 

[al mc]

I agree with Sep's most recent post. Personally, I would not use malachite green. It is carcinogenic. I found some comments about it's use by Bob Fenner, a respected aquarist that you should read before using it.
www.wetwebmedia.com/malachitegreen.htm
I found this and other info by 'googling' malachite green for the treatment of Ich.

 

[barracuda1]

Ok, I see your concern with malachite so if u aren't comfortable with it, don't use it and are you trying to maintain bio-balance in the main tank after hypo and disease if so don't add the meth. blue finally if u use the copper please just look up the possible effects on tangs