Help on Unbelievably high Nitrate levels

[tony]

Hi everyone,
Its been quite awhile since I last came in here as my tank was problem free (I thot so!).
Quick specs on my tank:
3 x 2.5 ft tank
Eheim filter (carbon, Poly filter, BioHome, coral sand, in this order from the top layer)
Teco Micro cooler
Protein Skimmer
Powerhead
LRs (15 Lbs)
Coralsand
6 fishes (3 clowns, 1 yellow tang, 1 goby, 1 royal gramma)
1 cleaner shrimp
1 coco worm
1 tree polyp
1 purple-tip anaemone
1 branch
1 cauliflower
I have been having a nitrate problem ever since I started the tank, But now the nitrate level has shot to the upper range (100 mg/1 NO3) of the test kit (TetraTest).
I have tried using almost everything from Enzyme (AZ-NO3 Absolute Zero-Nitrates) to bacteria (Ocean Free A-Z Super Beneficial Bacteria) to help reduce the nitrate level, but it does not help at all.
I only feed my fishes once a day and I definitely do not overfeed them.
I tried changing water afew times but that only temporarily reduce the nitrate level but it will go up again after afew days. I used to buy sea water direct from the shop but have recently switched to using mixture of DI water and salt. I have noticed that seawater from the shop actually controls the nitrate level better than the mixture!
Could the Protein skimmer be the problem if it does not pump out enough of the bio overload in the tank?
I really cannot solve this mystery of what causes the nitrate level to stay so high and its slowly killing my coral (and not to mention that my fishes are living in a poisonous environment!)
Pls advice. Thanks a million
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[sduda]

While I don't think it is the total answer to your problem, one thought that comes to mind is increasing your circulation in your tank to help with the bio filtration. What type of food and how much are you feeding at each feeding? How often are you doing water changes? This seems like a lot of fish for this size tank. It would also help to increase your LR and LS. The additives for the nitrate removal are only temporary fixes as I understand them (good for short term spikes but they don't address the real problem).

 

[bobber]

You almost answered your own question. You definately have a bio overload in that size tank. What kind of skimmer are you running? Although you may not overfeed, the waste produced is too much to handle. How deep is your sand? When was the last time you cleaned the Eheim? The eheim is a nitrate factory(so is any canister filter for that matter). The bacteria that you added to the tank was not a good idea, but not a devastating one. The tank will naturally reproduce the appropriate bacteria-there is no need to add more. Regular water changes always help-maybe you need to do more changes more often or more water less often. This is something that you will have to experiment with. Perhaps a deeper sandbed will help. Definately more LR will help with filtration. Keep a real close eye on your corals and fish. First thing is first-change about 50% or more of your water, then go from there. HTH--Bob

 

[saltwater marauder]

I am with Bobber on this one, well said.

 

[burnnspy]

What additives do you add to the tank? Some additives can give falsely high nitrate readings, read all labels.
BurnNSpy

 

[tony]

thanks for the reply
Sduda: I feed them Tetra DoroMarin Sinking Morsels (about 20 grains of that per feed). Ocaasionally I also feed them frozen brine shrimp. I do a water change about once a month and a 50% change each time. If I put in more LRs now, wouldn't it increase the ammonia & nitrite level if the living organism starts to die off because of the high nitrate level?
Bobber If I have a bio overload, so u suggest that I remove some fishes? (can't bear to). I am using a very simple skimmer (cannot remember the name) but I don't think the skimmer is functioning well. Could this be the problem? I clean my Eheim about once a month but that just involve changing the synthetic filter floss which gets dirty quite easily. Other than that I have not really clean up the Eheim real well! Water changes once a month 50 %. As I have asked Sduda above, wouldn't the addition of more LRs at this stage introduce ammonia & nitrite when the organism in the LR die due to the high nitrate?
BurnNSpy Additives that I put
SERA Ph-Plus - once daily as reading too low (7.8).
M3 Phosphate Minus - once daily
Ocean Free A-Z Super Beneficial Bacteria - 5g every alternate days.
Algae remover - every alternate days.
CoralLife Invertebrate Gourmet Gumbo - twice a week.

 

[broomer5]

Tony,
If your pH is always low - you may want to add more sand/aragonite substrate, and my suggestion would be to raise your pH with a buffer - slowly.
Discontinue using the bacteria and algae remover. Do a water changes to bring down existing high nitrate levels.
Sometimes it is possible to "add" too many additives thinking we are doing good for the tank. My experience - water changes with minimal trace elements, calcium, iodine, etc. and test for each.
Hope you figure this one out.
Broomer

 

[jimi]

How deep is your sand bed? If it is shallow crushed coral that too is a nitrate factory.That is one reason that for years alot of people used no substrate. You couls slowly add sand like natures own or southdown until you reach 3 to 4" depth and some cured live rock from your lfs so you dont get a ammonia spike. Adding bacteria like you did does not help as those are the nitrate producing bacteria. What kind of skimmer is it?

 

[bobber]

Like jimi said, CURED LR will not create an ammo spike. Cured LR does not have a smell to it. This will help in buying the right LR.
As for removing fish, IMO, I'd rather remove them myself than to have them die and forced to remove them. I had a bluespotted goby that I just loved. He had a great personality. However, when I added my DSB, he had to go. I hated doing it, but it would of damaged my DSB. So, I'll leave it up to you. I don't want to tell you what to do with your tank, just suggesting the cause of your porblems. I don't think the skimmer is causing your problems either. And a 50% water change very soon and not every month. But maybe more like every two weeks or every week change 20-25%. Consistent water changes on a regular schedule will give you a better idea of what is going on with your tank and the parameters you have control of. HTH--Bob

 

[burnnspy]

Use Seachem Marine buffer to control your pH and alkalinity.
The Coralife Gumbo is okay though, the rest should go into the trash.
That is the very reason canister are nitrate factories, they are to much a pain in the butt for most people to clean as often as is needed.
BurnNSpy

 

[tony]

hi guys
sori for replying late, just got back fm a short holiday over the w/e.
I just talk to an aquarium owner yesterday n he also suggested to try changing water more often. I will try to do a couple of change over month or so and also drop those additives that u guys suggested and I will see how it goes from there.
Will definitely keep u guys posted on the outcome n tks alot once agn for ur advice.
cheers

 

[tony]

another qn: wats considered over-feeding?
i feed my fishes once a day with Tetra DoroMarin Sinking Morsels, about 20 pellets.
is this too much? I was told to feed them every alternate days only....
how often do u guys feed ur fishes?
tks vm

 

[bobber]

I feed every day but I vary the diet. Frozen brine, 1 cube of variety pack(can't remember the brand), Spectrums pellets, flake(only once a month-I hate flake foods), and Seaweed Selects. All of the foods are soaked in Zoe first. I feed enough to where it is all gone in 5 minutes or less. Only once a day when I get home(around 6pm). I also don't feel bad if I skip a day. The average is usually once a day or every other day. HTH--Bob

 

[tony]

Hi guys
I just did a 40% water change yesterday. I tested the new water b4 I put in the tank ( 0 nitrate and 8 on the Ph PERFECT!)
However, after I changed the water, I tested the water condition after an hours later the nitrate level is still at 100 ppm (it never get any lower)?
Any Clue?

 

[jimi]

How deep is your sand bed and do you have any live rock? Your canister filter is a nitrate factory and if you have a shallow bed with no or little rock you have nothing or nowhere to complete the nitrogen cycle.

 

[tony]

My filter is a Eheim wet/dry. It has synthetic filter floss (topmost), carbon, poly-filter, BioHome, sand (bottom most) in it.
Could this setup build up my nitrate levels?
I was told by some guys that its best just to put some coral chips n sand in the filter and thats about all.
What do u guys suggest should be in a canister filter such as mine so as to reduce the nitrate n build bacteria level?
Thanks

 

[q]

When you buy the cured live rock make sure it hasn't sat around much which could cause a bit of die off and peak the ammonia. It would be best to cure it your self then you know it is done right

 

[adrian]

My suggestion would be to ditch the canister all together, or just use it with a little carbon, create a nice thick live sand bed using a very fine sand, do some water changes, and allow the bed to mature and take care of the problem itself. A little more live rock wouldnt hurt either, but I would put more emphasis on the sand. Good luck

 

[tony]

I was told by the guy over at the shop that BioHome is a very housing agent for bacteria, in fact its like 10-20 times stronger than normal Bio-balls or other housing agent. I think I have 2 pacs of BioHome in my wet/dry. Isn't this good enuff to house big chunks of bacteria n take out the nitrate?
If i were to lose the BioHome and poly-filter, does that mean that my canister will just be some carbon and sand and nothing else?
I am pretty confused to this theory of wet/fry filtering because I was taught by some guys to use Bio media in it, while another bunch says to just use coral chips n sand, and most guys on the net says to throw away the canister totally or just use minimal bio-media in it.
Any good advice pls...i really need some here as my nitrate problem is getting me crazy...tks vm

 

[burnnspy]

I know of no canister filter to date that will remove nitrates from a reef tank.
Nitrates are removed by anoxious or anerobic bacterias, canisters and WD filters only contain anerobic bacteria capable of very efficient ammonia reduction into nitrates.
Only Live sand beds consisting of 5+" of LS or a plenum system with 4" of aragonite gravel can naturally remove nitrates from a reef tank. Water changes are the best way to reduce nitrates when not having enough LS and LR to do it for you.
BurnNSpy
[ May 11, 2001: Message edited by: BurnNSpy ]