Help Please With Logic Resistant Algae

swampthing

Member
I've got a chronic algae problem. I've been running a 90 gallon reef tank for better than 2 years now. At one time I had beaten the algae and the tank looked great, so I know it can be done.
All and all, the tank seems pretty healthy. Too healthy, really. When I first put in the turf scrubber, the green hair algae slowly subsided until there was almost none. In fact, all my bigger snails died off from starvation. I started fumbling around with Hbh Balance Blocks, trying to keep the pH in a tight range. This was the only thing I did differently. After about a month and perhaps two packages of blocks the algae just went crazy.
I tried using the algea killing liquid product. This went poorly. The green algae became a yellowish, bubbling algea which became red slime algae. This went on for another month, before I stopped adding anything at all to the tank, increased the filter flow, changed the floro bulbs, and decreased the lighting period.
It's been another month and the tank has gone back to green algae (some dark green, some less dark). All the while, I've been scooping out 4-8 oz. or more of the stuff every day. The growth seems to have tapered a bit, and it only loosly grips the rock, so removal is easy, but it keeps coming back. Anybody got any suggestions? Too much food? Too much light? Give it more time? Add a carbon reactor? Less/more water changes? I'm not too keen on adding anything like medicines or suppliments.
What I've got in my 90 gallon tank:
90+ pounds of live and base rock. 3-4 inches of argonite sand with another 1-2 inches of live carribean sand on top of that.
The filters are in the basement one floor down. I'm putting about 50 gal/hour through the filters. Inside the tank, I've got two 125gph Powersweep pumps and a single (I'd guess) 250 gph static powerhead. All my softs are swaying in the water, and the flecks of snow swirl around the tank fairly well. The drain is at about 75% capacity (I'd guess).
First a trickle filter (5 gallon bucket filled with blue sponge foam and then bioballs) with a phosphate reactor getting maybe 5-10 gal/hour of the flow, and then second it all goes over a turf scrubber (an angled 15"x18" window screen lit by four 18" florescent tube lights on one side, lit 18 hours a day).
In the sump, maybe 10-15 gallons, I've got 8# of live rock along with the heaters and main pump. Also in the sump is a protien skimmer rated for 100 gallons.
I keep 5-6 mature blue/green chromis, 2 mature chalk bass, and 2 smaller clownfish (the orange ones with a white stripe) in the tank. There's the fattest blue gobie you've ever seen stuck in the back partition that hides the drain and return plumbing. Say 23 inches or so of fish in total.
Every day I feed them two piches of crap cuisine pellets, two pinches of marine chips, and a half block of frozen emerald entree.
/>I keep all soft corals. Two green sea mats, several dozen assorted mushrooms, and a half dozen big ricordia. And another soft that I can't recall what it's called. They're all fully extending and growing just fine. I've got pink and green calcerous aglae making inroads where they're able.
Also in the tank are numerous little snails, some peppermint shrimps, an anenomie crab, a bristle work that won't take the bait in my tube trap, all manner if copepods and amphipods, and the occasional glass anenomie that I kill when I find.
I have one 48" semi-actinic floro and one 36" sunlight floro going for 12 hours a day. Then I've got 4 six-LED floods down the middle going for 10 and a half hours a day.
My water chemistry is as follows:
pH roams around between 8.00 and 8.20; Calcium is in high, in the 680-720 range; Hardiness is good at between 161-179 DK; Nitrates stay between 0-0.25; Phosphates stay between 0-1; Iodine is a bit high at 0.09; Iron is a bit low at 0.05 ; Temperature roams around between 76 - 80 farenheit.
All the water from a Might Mite RO/DI filter. I'm changing out 5 gallon every other week.
Any ideas?
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
1. Too much food for what you got. Everything should be eaten.
2. Check your RO/DI water with a TDS meter, anything above 5 and you need to change your filters. If your carbon filters are more than three months old, they also need to be replaced immediately.
3. Ditch your bioballs. Keep the sponge filter, however, it needs to be rinsed in saltwater every 5-7 days. Bioballs accumulate detritus and if they aren't maintained, they contribute to excess nutrients instead of help breaking them down.
4. Your algae scrubber needs to be modified to use a roughed up plastic canvas screen, and not window screen. Window screen isn't rough enough to really grow algae very well. Also, if you haven't replaced your lights on that unit, you need to. Algae scrubber lights need to be replaced every 3 months to keep their intensity. When the bulbs loose intensity, the screen stops producing algae. Also, you may consider increasing the water flow over the screen.
5. Take a turkey baster and blow off all of your rocks - you will see a bunch of detritus come off of them. Siphon this out at every water change.
6. Make absolutely sure your protein skimmer is producing. A skimmer cup should be filled with a dark skimmate every three to five days. If it takes a week to fill a skimmer cup with your kind of bioload, it's not working to capacity. If you can't tweak it to make it work, upgrade your skimmer. Octopus makes good brands, so are SWC Cone skimmers. I really like my SC65 skimmer, and they also make an SC150 cone skimmer for cheap. It would be a good upgrade.
7. Increase your water change amount. Whatever you are doing now x2. But here's the kicker - you absolutely need to make sure your RO unit is working properly.
I hope this helps.
 

swampthing

Member
Thanks for you help. The algae was my clue I was doing something wrong, but yow. Fish'll go on a diet, and I'll get on the filter and bulb changes. I'd never heard to avoid the bioballs. I take it the turf scrubber and the live rock will handle the nitrates without them? My skimmer takes out 2-3 ounces of cola colored fish poop a day, so it'll probably okay (I might even back it down a hair). Plastic canvas screen? I can't think what that is right now. Could I get that at my home store?
Thanks again. Your days are numbered, aglae!
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Yep, wash your sponge filter out in old saltwater at every water change and get rid of the bioballs. Bioballs have bacteria on them that convert ammonia into nitrate, but they do nothing for breaking down nitrate into nitrogen gas. The turf scrubber, if properly built and well managed, will handle most of your bioload and reduce your nitrates and phosphates alone. Your protein skimmer should not be backed off any, especially now that you are having problems. Plastic canvas is what they use for knitting pictures, or whatever it's called. You can pick it up at your local wal-mart in the knitting/sewing section. A pack of it is $2.50.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Mind you, that you have to use a hole saw blade to scrape the screen up to make it rough enough for the algae to grow on. It should feel like cactus by the time you're done.
A scrubber screen should be cleaned every seven days, half the screen at a time. Bulbs lighting the screen should be changed once every 3 months to keep their intensity. 2,700k bulbs seems the norm. More bulbs, better growth. You also need 35gph of flow per horizontal length of screen.
 

swampthing

Member
Sounds good! I thing I'll just chuck the old sponge filter and start fresh with some new stuff and maybe double up on it. I've got plenty. And scraping half the turf scrubber at a time is another good idea I should've already had. Water flow should be fine, and I'll find that rubber canvas today.
Thanks again, I'll post back in a week with an update.
 

swampthing

Member
It's been a week, and there's been a slight downturn in algae growth. I'm pulling out less and it's staying gone a lttle longer. Generally it's going in the right direction, or at least not getting any worse.
I replaced the window screen in the turf scrubber with two side by side panels of plastic canvas backed by clear lexan. I figure having two slabs will make it easier cleaning one half per week. They're growing in, but I'd say it'll be another week or two before the growth is thick enough to warrant any removal.
The RO/DI filter got replaced and the new one is flowing about half the rate of the old one. This is probably a good thing. And the floros on the scrubber will get changed next month as they're still relatively new.
I balked on tossing the bioballs until the turf scrubber really grows in, but the blue foam pad got replaced and is getting rinsed on schedule. Sorry all you tiny shrimpy things that get flushed when I rinse it.
The fish are at half rations. They expensive ones seem to be taking it well, but the blue greens are stressed. Probably more from me fishing around in there for algae every day than from the diet.
All and all, I'd say it's headed in the right direction. Continued vigillence is in order.
 

swampthing

Member
Not too bad, really. I'm angling towards a second even bigger tank, but not until I'm sure I can keep the first one in good shape. I'll update again in a week.
 

swampthing

Member
One quick question. The algae on the new scrubber is coming in mostly brown with traces of green. Normal in the begining? There's only green in the tank. I suspect it will change to green algae as the turf scrubber matures.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
You are correct. Higher amounts of nutrients in the water column produce darker algaes. If necessary, double your wattage on your lights and try to get them within 4" of the screen. This will help produce more light green hair algae, which is desirable.
 

swampthing

Member
After two weeks, the turf scrubber is still brown, but thickening up nicely. I've put the flouros so close, I had to put a piece of lexan in front of them to keep the splash water from shorting them out. Again, I'm still holding off on tossing the bioballs, but rinsing the foam pad removed a lot of crap. The algea in the tank is still growing, but not at peak level. I still go in there every day or two. The fish are adapting to the reduced feedings well. Now, when I feed them, they all come out to eat, and they pretty well get it all. I'm considering feeding them just twice a day, although much of the literature says to go with three times.
My water chemistry is still doing well. Nitrates are 0. Phosphates are 0. Hardiness is 143 DK. Calcium is at 420. Iron is between 0 and 0.05. Iodine is between 0.06 and 0.09. And Phospherous is maybe in the 310-320 range (that's the first time I've run that test, so confidence in that number isn't very high). I'd like to test for silicon, but I'm not finding a home test kit for that. Also, what's a reliable TDS meter I can use once a week with my other water tests?
Just steady as she goes. The sign that I'd turned the corner last time was when I didn't need to clean the glass but once a week or less. I'm not back there yet. Curious how the algae only grows where it's put down roots. The sand and the rocks are either pristine clean, or growing a clump of algae. I'm tempted to just take out the rocks with no coral and let them dry out for a week, then reintroduce them. More next week.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Lol. Don' t dry your rocks.
Did you really roughen up your plastic canvas screen with a hole saw blade? If the screen isn't rough, roots will not take hold on the screen.
If you are tempted to do more than sit and watch, I would say that you can take some rocks out and spot treat your hair algae with hydrogen peroxide. You don't have to wash the rocks off before you put it back in the tank. Hydrogen peroxide will kill the algae and only the algae.
Maybe if you do some spot treatments on your rocks, your scrubber screen will take off and do much better.
 

swampthing

Member
Week Three. The scrubber algae is now more green-brown than just green, and there's enough that I cleaned off half of it. I does come off the plastic canvas a lot easier than the window screen. If it looks like it's growing back okay, I'll get rid of the bioballs this week.
The water chemistry is still doing just fine. I notices the salinity was down to 28 so I'll be bringing that up through the water changes. And the algae in the tank is definitely coming back much slower. I only has to scrub the glass and pull out the excess twice this week. I expect pretty soon it'll start shrinking back on it's own. All and all, pretty good. Thanks again for the help.
Any thoughts on getting rid of glass anenomies for good? the cement works fine on the ones I can get to, and the peppermint shrimps don't do much of anything.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
depends on how bad your infestation is. If it's just a few extras here and there, take the rock out and make a kalkwasser paste and smother them. Another way is use a syringe with some vinegar or Joes Juice. Not all peppermint shrimp eat glass anemones, you have to buy the right kind. Some peppermints are sold as such, but are actually camelback shrimp. They're hard to tell the difference, but you gotta make sure you get the right kind.
 

swampthing

Member
Hmm. I looked at the two different shrimps onlinw, and there's about no way to tell them apart. Except that mine don't eat aiptasia. The juice works fine on the ones I can get to, but it's a predrilled tank and there's a few big ones back in the corner. I guess I'll just have to climb down in there and smother em.
 

swampthing

Member
Week Four. Well, the bioballs are out. The scrubber has turned dark green and is growing pretty good. I'd almost say I could clean the whole thing every week. The half that is going on it's second week is starting to look like shag carpet. I'm keeping an eye on the water chemistry and I've got enough new bioballs to put that filter back should things go south.
The algae is still doing more growing than retreating, but it's slowing. I only took out maybe two cups for the whole week, so I'd say it's going in the right direction.
I've changed out the blue foam for some new stuff and I think that's going to be a new monthly thing. Also, I changed out the medium in the phosphate reactor. And since I'll have to buy more now, is there any difference between them? Would I do better using any specific brand or do I not really need any at all?
 

elipaul

New Member
Snake can answer you better although i wouldnt clean that scrubber totally cuz the alge is needed to maintain and with the growth u got i would try letting it grow for longer and cleaning less
 
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