HELP!!!! Pre-cured rock--NOT

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by trainfever
DO NOT REMOVE THE ROCK! the cycle has already started, removing the rock will not stop the cycle or change anything in the water. You might as well leave it go.
The point is not to stop the cycle... the point is to get the rotting debris off of the rock in an attempt to limit the amount of ammonia being dumped into his already established tank!
Right now your rock is covered with dead and dying material. This is producing a huge amount of ammonia (especially in a small tank). Take the rock out, cycle the rock in a different container (scrubbing it often, skimming it

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if you can, keeping it well circulated and changing the water often) and let your tank stabilize itself.

 

[cbarnes]

i am about check all perameters again this am---but like i said before they are looking normal now

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but the tank is gettinh VERY cloudy.

 

[cbarnes]

OK----just checked all my perameters before adding any AmQuel or marine buffer----

pH down b/w 7.4-7.8, Nitrites off the chart, Ammonia over 2.0ppm, and Nitrates b/w 10-20. I know it is starting the begining of the cycle. I added AmQuel and Marine pH buffer. Plan on doing a water change this afternoon after going and getting some other tests and stuff from LFS. Unbelievably my Trigger is out and seems to be doing better
So when I do go to the store should I get stuff to put the rock in or let the cycle draw itself out in the tank while using the AmQuel and pH buffer and do h2o changes. I also plan on getting some air stones today to help the o2. My tank is 90 gallons w/ a wet/dry sysatemm and a protein skimmer---which i have been i have had to empty at least once or twice daily---has had about an inch+ of yuck in it.
Are there any special filters I can get to put in the tank as well???
I realize this has been a very stuipd mistake on my part in the begining ----i just need to know if there is anything else I can do short of taking the rock out---since i was advised by the LFS that the damage has been done and let it run it's coarse in the tank and continue w/ what I am doing.
And as far as h2o change -- how much should i do now and how often.
Thank you in advance for everyones help!!!!!
Also journey---while doing the h2o chang could i just take the rocks out then and scrub them down in a salt tub and return them to the tank---would this help?

 

[1journeyman]

It would help... certainly couldn't hurt. The stuff you scrub off is dead or dying anyway. The good stuff will stay attached.
I'd still vote getting the rock out, though. I just finished cycling a tank with a batch of Kaelini and a batch of Fiji. You will be amazed at how foul the stuff is that you can scrub off the rock.

 

[cbarnes]

well, thanks for everyones help.. I have my fish guy caoming to do a MAJOR overhaul and try to save the 2 fish i have left. All the rest passed last night----lesson learned I guess. anyway--thanks again for everyones input.

 

[ophiura]

I'm really sorry to hear about this
I'm sorry to say that any rock that is SHIPPED, must be CURED before putting it into the tank. That would have happened with rock shipped from anywhere. If in transport for ANY period of time, there is die off. Obviously once several hours pass, the die off becomes more significant. After 2 days, which is what most LR ships at I think, there is very significant die off. Should never be put in a display tank. The terminology used (pre cured) is confusing for sure, and that resulted in fish loss
But I would add that the best bet in this case in the future (hopefully never happens again) is to remove the livestock to an LFS or something, or remove the rock, and do water changes. You can add ammonia detoxifiers in such a case, IMO. Its an emergency, but I would not try and alter other water chems (pH) by adding things like buffer etc unless you know your alkalinity is low. Just adding buffer when not needed can cause major additional problems. Low pH can be caused by a variety of factors that may have no relationship to buffers.

 

[cbarnes]

i guess the thing that really ticks me off is my tank guy should have known this and taken the proper steps---since i am so new to this. But

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lear5n from mistakes i guess. I will stop adding the buffer and after today's water change will probably do much of nothing except clean skimmer 2 x daily--which is needed. any other suggestions?? I mean yeah it sux----but hopefully in long run it will be worth it.
Any suggestion on lighting? I have just added a 50/50 to my lighting--but i need a whole new set up as far as lighting goes. Is there any that u would recommend? I have looked at many differant lights b/w $200-$750. I don't plan on having an mega reef tank so I am just unsure as to what is really needed for the rock and some polyps and shrooms. again--any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[ophiura]

Oh, lighting is worthy of a new thread I would definitely start a new thread so the "lighting" people can jump on and some of us "live rock people" (at least I can admit my limitations) can sit out....lighting is a whole 'nother can of worms.
It is very unfortunate you have an aquarium guy and he didn't figure that one out.

 

[1journeyman]

Yes. The "aqurium guy" really should have known this... you might want to ask him/her some blunt questions. If you don't like the answers I would look elsewhere.

 

[ophiura]

I, too, would ask some questions. How old is your system? If his solution was some stress-zyme, that is a touch of a concern.

 

[mombostic]

I just wanted to drop one little comment--you made mention that someone didn't have any experience. I am assuming that you feel this way because of the number of posts. Please keep in mind that the number of posts and date information is simply when that person signed up on this message board--don't dismiss advice too quickly based on that information. I had my tank for about nine months before I joined, and my dad has had saltwater tanks (though to be honest his methods are somewhat different from most of the methods on here!) for almost ten years, and he doesn't even have a computer.
I'm sorry about your trouble. I've always been suspicious of that whole "pre-cured" bit when it came to live rock. Let us know how things turn out.

 

[jon.316]

I'd say take the rock out and let it sit in some saltwater and cure it again. Your tanks gonna cycle and all your fish will die. Take the rock out and cure it...then do water changes to save your fish...your tank wont cycle really bad if you keep chnaging your water.
During shipping, that 3-5 days it takes, lots of critters die, so that'll automatically cycle your tank if you just put it right in your tank...the longer u leave it in ur tank..the higher your trates and ammonia is going to go until it cycles....Next time, premix a tub with ro/di salt water and leave the rock in it for about 4 days...most people suggest 7 but i find four is sufficient before adding to your main tank.
good luck and email me if you'd like some more advice.

 

[mudplayerx]

Since nobody else ever posts my live rock FAQ, I guess I will continue to do so
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...hreadid=157354

 

[cbarnes]

Hey mud---i did read your thread---unfortunately it was too late. Well checked h2o this AM. Ammonia and nitrates are off way off after the 100% water change and cleaning the rock. Yes, i must admit---the fish guy SUX. However my bicolor blenny in still hanging there. I added more AmQuel + this am---and yes---the "fish guy" is a BIG fan of stresszyme. I really don't have the ability to re-cure the rocks outside of the tank. I guess I am just going to have to let it run its coarse. Should I clean the bio-balls? I changed the filters 2 days ago--the poly filter, floss, and carbon. ANy other suggestions. This has been a real learning experience about who my new LFD will be!!!! I just want to at least save the bi-color if possible. Got the guy to take my huma trigger last nite--which was the only other surviving fish.
Anyway, thanks again for any help!!

oh and mom---when i said the one guy didn't have experience---it wasn't due to anything except thier bio---in the experience section it said little to none---that's all.

 

[matttamar]

I agree with Shadiest1, I ordered 65 lbs of fiji rock and the shipping was delayed so die off on the rock was really bad, When I recieved the rock I opened the box and almost barfed. I picked all of the dead stuff off and put it in a rubbermaid tub, with two powerheads, a heater and a HOB filter. It took 3 weeks to cure, Take the rock out of your tank dont make the mistake i did my rock was in my tank for two weeks and the levels were good so I started buying fish.........BIG MIstake

I moved the rock after getting the fish and the levels shot up again killing everything due to the rock bieinng in the sand so one side of every piece of rock was not getting aerated The smell when I moved theses rocks was horrible(I think my wife wanted to kill me). Switching the rock over to the tub was the best way to go and I havent had a problem with it since.

 

[network13]

Look, you need to sit down and do some serious reading on the nitrogen cycle.

The cycle has started... that means more than chemical shifts in a test kit. That means you are receiving new inhabitants called bacteria. They are who make the cycle. The more surface areas you have, i.e. rock faces, the edges of a grain of sand, ANYTHING in the tank that something small enough for a bacteria to live on, the larger your "bio-filter" will be. Every time you take that rock back out of your tank you kill off this growing population of beneficial bacteria, every time you add more chemicals to stop the cycle you kill off there food source, prolonging the inevitable. You started a vicious cycle... there is no way to stop it.
There are additives that add the bacteria to your tank that smell like.... well, I really don’t think there is a word to describe how foul that stuff smells, but it is a bacteria culture that helps boost the initial presence of the bacteria.
One thing though, if the rocks are visibly dying, bits n pieces of stuff kind of blowing off and flaking in to the water, by all means scrub that stuff off, but then put the rocks back in the tank, and let the cycle take its course.

 

[ophiura]

The difference here, so far as I can tell (not sure on the tank age, etc) was that it was a relatively established (already cycled) tank with a wet dry and fish in it, when uncured rock was added and it recycled. In this case, I would try and save the fish either by removing them (ideally) or adding an ammonia detoxifier (not ideal). But so far as I can tell this was a cycled tank to start...if that is wrong, then you should fire the fish guy IMMEDIATELY and charge him (withhold his payment) for the fish loss.
Do not "clean" the bioballs unless there is debris in them, but only use tank water - NEVER use fresh/tap water.

 

[cbarnes]

There is definately debris on the bio balls--oops sorry---just the housing. i olny have the bi-color in the tank now. All other fish are dead except the one I sent back last night----and don't worry the fish guy is HISTORY!!!! So I guess I will just let the re-cycling begin. And Network----I have done my reading---maybe not enough----but that is why I hired someone to start up the tank and manage it in the begining---so I didn't screw everything up----well--came back to bite me in the butt now didn't it. Anyway, I'll just deal w/ another LFD. Should I addd Stress Zyme or can u recommend anything better for the bacteria. Like I said earlier---the "fish guy" came by last night and did 100% h2o change and we scrubbed all the rocks in a bucket w/ the h2o that was already in the tank. I am sure this probably wasn't the rite thing to do considereing most of what this guy has done has not been the rite thing. But what is done is done----I just want to do what I can now to make sure things get better. Thanks again for everything and everyones help onn this mess!!!!!

 

[network13]

Really sorry for your loss, Live a little, learn/spend a lot I guess. :thinking:
How much new live rock did you add if you don't mind me asking?
And one other thing i noticed I was wondering. You say that you had 45 G of RO water and that you were doing a water "Change" if you are doing water changes with RO water your lowering the salt content. you should only be "toping off" with RO water.
Are you mixing your salt water right before you do the water change? I am pretty sure that is not recomended. If so you'ld probably be beter off buying Saltwater from the LFS.
What is your tanks salinity right now?
and I have been advised to NEVER clean the bio-balls! that is what is going to multiply in to the the larger bio-filter that will natrually lower your anmonia spike.

 

[ophiura]

If there is a lot of sludge caught in the bioballs, or in the chamber, it can be rinsed out with tank water. Otherwise that stuff is just rotting there.
I think a water change with RO water simply means that the source is RO water and not tap water, but that it is mixed with salt water. While not ideal to mix and use water immediately, in an emergency it may be what you have to do. Hopefully it has some chance to sit and mix awhile.
I would just let the tank recycle on its own. You added many bottles of stresszym whatever just with your LR. Just let it work its way through. How old was this system before you put the LR in? How was it initially cycled? I am starting to worry, what with the sound of the fish guy....