Help w/ water levels.....

[vt rules]

I have a HOB overflow that drains to my sump. In the sump I have a Mag 5 pump for the return water and the valve on the return pipe is wide open. Until recently the rate that water was returned to the tank seemed to be perfect, I never had a any issues with water levels. The other day I noticed my water level in the main tank had risen a bit (not a lot but a bit). I went away over the weekend and of course when I returned some water had overflowed from the main tank . I closed the return valve a bit to limit the water coming back to the tank and it seems to have lowered the water to a proper level again. I can't see any blockage in my u-tube. Any ideas what could be causing this issue (it makes me very nervous)?
Update:
Okay, I need some help. The u-tube seems to be pretty clean. I checked it out and got the flow started again about 5 days ago. I also cleaned my stockman pipe (not sure of the name) that I have in my overflow for noise dampering. After doing this I still needed to dial the return pump down a bit. It's been pretty steady since then until tonight. It was getting ready to come spilling over the top again so I tweaked the flow on the return pump down again. This is working okay but I do seem to be having trouble getting the overflow rate = return rate. This is making me nervous, anyone have a clue as to what is going on?
Thanks

 

[squidd]

Is this a "U" tube or CPR "box" design...?
Do you have air trapped in the top of "U" tube or box that could be slowing water transfer from inner to outer chamber...???

 

[psusocr1]

how big is the sump/refugium? how big are your return pipes... it counds lie you are returning way to fast for what your refugium can handle..
in other words..
if i am draining two one inch holes, thats 1200 GPH say into a 30 gallon refugium but i am pumping out with a pump rated at 1600 GPH (after the head loss etc.) you will overflow the main tank.. because you are not drainign fast enough for the pump since its not keeping up causing the overflow..
on the other hand if your draining say 1200 GPH into a refugium but your pump is only rated for 700 GPH .. it wouldnt be a big deal since your tank will only drain as fast as your pumping back to the top, but when you reverse the situation liek the above paragraph you will get flooding!
you can do one of two things..
1. tell me what your drainign at and c an figure out how much you need to be pumping and you can adjust accordingly.
2. just play with the ball valve on the pump to find the "right" level for your pump not to "outpump" the drains..
3. get a larger overflow box and add another u-tube to be sure you never dont drain fast enough
hope i helped!

 

[vt rules]

I'm not sure of the actual numbers on the system. I bought this used but it worked perfectly for a year. It has only recently just started to act up. I've always had the ball valve wide open and the overflow has always been equal to the return flow. I can't understand what is causing the problem all of a sudden. If I added a second u-tube wouldn't I be in danger of flooding my sump? I have a 10 gallon sump. As much I would hate to do it, I have almost reached the point where I am going to put my heater and skimmer in the main tank and do away with the sump. The whole flooding issue is making me very nervous!

 

[psusocr1]

you cana dd another u-tube but your overflow box might not be able to accomedate it.. and remember you wont overflow your sump because it will only drain as fast as your are pumping

 

[joncat24]

are you sure you dont have something stuck in a pipe somewhere? Sounds like if it just started all the sudden that there may be a snail or crab or something blocking the flow somehow.
It doesn't make any sense that after a year it would just stop working, without something in the system changing.

 

[vt rules]

Originally Posted by joncat24
are you sure you dont have something stuck in a pipe somewhere? Sounds like if it just started all the sudden that there may be a snail or crab or something blocking the flow somehow.
It doesn't make any sense that after a year it would just stop working, without something in the system changing.
I know it doesn't make sense.
I've checked the u-tube and the stockman pipe and they seem okay. The only other area that could be blocked is the big, wide hose that runs into the sump. I can't imagine anything getting in there that would be big enough to block it and it will be very difficult to check it.

 

[pandafish]

Originally Posted by vt rules
I know it doesn't make sense.
I've checked the u-tube and the stockman pipe and they seem okay. The only other area that could be blocked is the big, wide hose that runs into the sump. I can't imagine anything getting in there that would be big enough to block it and it will be very difficult to check it.
Are the teeth on the prefilter box and the inside of the box free of algae?
Your Pipe look like these?
Durso Pipe
Check the hole in the cap of the Stockman Pipe (Durso Stand pipe)? make sure that is clear. Salt creep can cut off the air supply. I usually clean mine with a wet toothbrush. I would try running without the cap and see if that makes a difference. If not the blockage is below the pipe.

 

[vt rules]

Originally Posted by Pandafish
Are the teeth on the prefilter box and the inside of the box free of algae?
Your Pipe look like these?
Durso Pipe
Check the hole in the cap of the Stockman Pipe (Durso Stand pipe)? make sure that is clear. Salt creep can cut off the air supply. I usually clean mine with a wet toothbrush. I would try running without the cap and see if that makes a difference. If not the blockage is below the pipe.
I have a Stockman Standpipe, it looks like this.... http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/stand...n_stockman.htm
I tried to take it out and it seemed to help a little bit but if I open the ball valve all the way (where it used to be for the last year) the water level in the main tank rises quickly and would overflow if I didn't turn it down.
Everything else seems to be pretty clean.
Baffled :notsure: !

 

[pandafish]

Originally Posted by vt rules
I have a Stockman Standpipe, it looks like this.... http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/stand...n_stockman.htm
I tried to take it out and it seemed to help a little bit but if I open the ball valve all the way (where it used to be for the last year) the water level in the main tank rises quickly and would overflow if I didn't turn it down.
Everything else seems to be pretty clean.
Baffled :notsure: !

Well if everything is clear..did you try adjusting the level of the perfilter box in the tank?
Maybe go a little deeper? Other than that I would post up some pics of your setup and maybe someone will see something we are all missing.

 

[vt rules]

Originally Posted by Pandafish
Well if everything is clear..did you try adjusting the level of the perfilter box in the tank?
Maybe go a little deeper? Other than that I would post up some pics of your setup and maybe someone will see something we are all missing.
I haven't adjusted the prefilter. The level doesn't seem to make a difference in the amount of water being sucked in. When the ball valve on the return pump is open all the way the water just rises right over top of the box and keeps on going until it is pouring over the top of the tank

.

 

[squidd]

You say water level "rise" in main tank...and so presumably in the inner chamber....
Does the water rise significantly on the outer chamber as well (is the outer chamber going to overflow ? )
Is the stockman sitting deeper in the water in the outer chamber than it used to..?
Have you tried tightening the air bleed screw to speed up flow..? (smaller/less holes on top)

 

[vt rules]

Originally Posted by Squidd
You say water level "rise" in main tank...and so presumably in the inner chamber....
Does the water rise significantly on the outer chamber as well (is the outer chamber going to overflow ? )
Is the stockman sitting deeper in the water in the outer chamber than it used to..?
Have you tried tightening the air bleed screw to speed up flow..? (smaller/less holes on top)
The water level does not rise at all in the outside chamber. It is the same level that it has always been.The water in the tank keeps rising above the top of the inside chamber. It just doesn't seem to have enough pull into that chamber.
The stockman was not sitting deeper in the water but I have actually removed it at this point.
I'm not sure what the air bleed screw is or if my setup has one.

 

[squidd]

The water level does not rise at all in the outside chamber. It is the same level that it has always been.The water in the tank keeps rising above the top of the inside chamber. It just doesn't seem to have enough pull into that chamber.
OK..It's not the drain or the Stockman..It's the transfer rate...and we are back to...
Is this a "U" tube or CPR "box" design...?
Do you have air trapped in the top of "U" tube or box that could be slowing water transfer from inner to outer chamber...???

 

[vt rules]

Originally Posted by Squidd
OK..It's not the drain or the Stockman..It's the transfer rate...and we are back to...
It is a U-tube system. I took the u-tube out a week ago and re-started the flow. It didn't seem to make a difference. How can I tell if there is air/bubble stuck in there that is causing problems and how can I get it out?

 

[squidd]

I take it it's not a "clear" U tube....?
Suggest getting one so you have a visual reference...
Generally, when U tube is submerged both ends..stick a piece of air line tube up one end and "suck" air bubble out...
This is where the clear/visual helps...seeing the bubble, hitting the bubble and knowing when to stop sucking so you don't get a mouthful of water...

 

[vt rules]

Originally Posted by Squidd
I take it it's not a "clear" U tube....?
Suggest getting one so you have a visual reference...
Generally, when U tube is submerged both ends..stick a piece of air line tube up one end and "suck" air bubble out...
This is where the clear/visual helps...seeing the bubble, hitting the bubble and knowing when to stop sucking so you don't get a mouthful of water...
It was clear, now it's covered in coralline. I'll try the air line thing and hope for the best. Thanks.

 

[squidd]

You would be surprised how a little bubble of air can cut the rate of flow thru a U tube... he CPR "box" style are worse...unless you have the addon "pump"...but that can creates it's own set of problems...