Help wanted

[netta]

I recently brought a salt water tank, 72 gallon bow. We added a power filter, as well as dry crush coral, and live sand. We let the tank run for a week, with steady temperature averaging (80-84 degree), and specific gravity (1.022-1.024). Week # 2 we added :happyfish 3 green chromis, 3 pink damsel, and 3 blue-yellow tail damsel. The water quality average, Temp (76-82), specific gravity (1.021-1.023), pH (8.0-8.4) ammonia (0-1), nitrite (0), nitrate(0). We only lost two fish (one was caught by the filter, and the other died of unknown cause) So my husband and I went back to the store, reviewed our log to the clerk, and all believed it was safe to add more fish. So by the end of week #2, we added 3 clownfish, 3 Clownfish , 3 Firefish, 3 Black domino damsel, 3 Blue damsel, 2 Four strip damsel, 2 Three strip damsel, 2 Green chromis. It was a extremely hot day. On the ride home from the pet store one of the three strip damsel died, and one of the black domino, and 2 firefish looked like he was struggling. Once home I immediately put the bag in the water, and rushed the acclimation process, I had the fish in the water within the hour. So the fish were in the bag for a total of 2 hours. :help:
Well checking on my new arrivals, I didn't notice a few of the fish. My black domino, two of the firefish died, and one pink damsel (that had a huge chunk of the gill missing). My ammonia level also was elevated this morning (4), ph (8.2) specific gravity 1.022, temp (84**have a fan blowing over the tank), nitrite and nitrate remains (0).
:help: Please tell me what's wrong. I know the ammonia will increase, but is it safe for the fish. :notsure:
Please give me some advice.
Thank you
Netta

 

[tizzo]

Your first piece of advice...and I think pretty much everyone on the board will agree is... quit taking the advice of that LFS!!!! I can't stress that enough! Pretty much everything they told you to do is wrong and unhealthy for your fish... Lemme tell you how it's supposed to work...
You set up your tank with saltwater heater powerhead and filtration.
You hafta start what's called a cycle. That is where all of your surface areas get covered in a very neccesary beneficial bacteria. That can take up to 6 weeks!!
The cycle is started by adding a source of ammonia to your tank or something that will break down causing ammonia. The most preferred method is buying a raw shrimp from your grocery store and dropping it into the tank. While it's rotting away, you need to purchase test kits. Specifically to test your nitrites, nitrates and ammonia levels.
See, it's a catch 22 here... You need ammonia to start the cycle, but ammonia will kill or severly stress your livestock.
If you want a successful tank you should start off right. Bag up all your fish and return them to the LFS for now, you can buy them back later whan your tank is ready. While your there pick up those test kits. Salifert has the most reliable and accurate, IMO but any test kits are better than no test kits and on your way home pick up that raw shrimp.
While your cycle begins, your can research on your own and get started the right way.
This book is not the most in depth, but it covers all the basics and is very easy to find. If you see it at your LFS buy it, or any book for that matter, but of all the ones I've read this one seems to target new hobbiests the best...

 

[tizzo]

Sorry, I got off track. After your cycle then you establish and maintain a constant water temp. A 4 degree jump each day is not unhealthy so to speak but it is uneccasarily stressful.
Then you add your fish. Every time you add a fish it will cause what's known as a mini cycle. It will create an ammonia jump but not usually enough to stress the fish, but if you add 3 or 4 at a time...that will definately stress your fish.
And with saltwater fish there is a limit to how many fish to keep in a tank. I am not sure of the size of your tank but that would be another issue you will want to research...
phones ringin', gotta go...

 

[tizzo]

OK, yeah...30 fish is WAY to many even for a very established tank...
So glad you came to the boards though, hope you can set this right. Good luck with everything!! h*

 

[annanymous]

take all the livestock you have now back to the LFS for a credit [you cant so many fishes in a 72g tank]
let the tank run on its own for a week or two [at least], do often water changes until the ammonia and other parameters are within normal [i.e. 0] and read up a few books. if you go in the dry goods section of this website, they sell some books. copy the names down and try to get them, they will give you a farily good idea of what to do in the future. meanwhile keep asking any questions you have, and be very patient. it pays off in the end.

 

[annanymous]

forgot to mention

WELCOME TO THE BOARD

 

[netta]

Thank you all for the advise.

I am definately a novice at the saltwater fish. I can be so impatient at times. The bad thing, the store does not take the fish back. So hopefully no more fish will die.

I have the testing kits, to peform daily or even twice a day testing.
I will keep the board updated on the fish. :notsure:
Netta :notsure:

 

[the reef]

also with fish dieing so quickly your tem in the tank is 84 I would bring that down between 77-80 the heat was a big factor in your fish dieing.
also way to many fish for your little 72 bow even if you put the right amout of fish in say as in 5 or 6 all at once the bio load will get overwelmed only add a couple at a time so the bio load can handel the change.

 

[sinner's girl]

what the heck? Please tell me your joking? I couldn't read all of your post because of the font color...
How many fish in a 72?

Poor fishes gonna die.

(I edited, sorry, I don't know where I go that number from...)
btw, don't mix cc and ls, there is no reason. just use ls.
Once home I immediately put the bag in the water, and rushed the acclimation process, I had the fish in the water within the hour.
WHY? that just causes stress on your fish. Click to the left and read swf.com's Acclimation. A hour is too fast.

Your sg shouldn't be in a range, 1.022-1.024, you should know exactly where it is and keep it there.
Please tell me what's wrong. I know the ammonia will increase, but is it safe for the fish
If I told you what was wrong, I'd get banned.... no, ammonia is NOT safe for fish. some might live through it, but they won't be happy about it, ammonia causes stress and kills, that why you have to cycle your tank before you add fish! Take all your fish back. Wait. read everything you can. Once you know what you're doing, then start over. You already have ammonia in your tank so it will cycle, let it cycle, take out either the cc or the ls, your best bet it the cc, get more ls or regular sand. add lr, get your temp down, get your sg stable. Learn everything you can. know your limits. Oh, and find a new fish store. Add one fish at a time (2 clowns is okay), wait 3-4 weeks before adding another. find out how many of what fish you can have in your tank (some fish produce more waste than others). I have a 75gl, I'm planning on keeping 3-4 max! I kept two in my 55gl.
Poor, poor fishes, stupid lfs only out to make money.

 

[jacknjill]

Holy Crap!

 

[sinner's girl]

I agree JacknJill, can you believe what some people will do for money?
How many fish have already died?

 

[mr.p]

Yeah that's too many fish and you rushed it but don't feel stupid just learn from this experience, btw if your LFS doesn't take any fish back don't buy from them anymore, any good fish store should take healthy fish back for credit or trade. That's B.S. they didn't take them back unless you bought them from like ***** or something.

 

[annanymous]

well maybe you can ask the store to hold them for you, after all they have enough space in their cycled tanks. if not maybe you have fellow reefer friends who will agre to hold a few fishes each for the time being.
but please dont buy nything else except books for now.
if there is anythig you ever want to buy, ask questions and then pay, not the other way around.
we want you and your fish to be happy and the only way to do that is to read

, read

, and read again

.
then ask

, ask

, and ask again

.
only then go and buy fish or corals :happyfish
most of the fish will unfortunately die unless you find where to place them, there are too many of them and your cycle is just kicking in. sorry

 

[ophiura]

Netta,
I want you to go to google, and type in "Boston Reef Society." That is your local club. They probably have a classifieds section so that you can find new homes or temporary homes for some of your fish. It is really important at this time to do so. Even if your water quality stabilizes, you will losed many of those fish to aggression as they will not be compatible long term.
Never, EVER, buy another fish or seek any advice from the LFS you currently go to.
Your tank is cycling, but it has cost the lives of several fish. This could have been easily prevented. The ammonia is highly toxic, but crucial to properly establishing the tank. But it is burning the gills of the fish, resulting in stress and death. If your ammonia is 4, then it may be wise to do partial water changes however I think it is most imperative to get those fish out of the system ASAP.
If you do not have any already, I would look on your local reef board there for people selling cured LR from their tanks. Cured LR will help speed the cycle up.
You've made a common mistake and it is not entirely your fault. You didn't know - but your LFS did, and their behavior is downright unacceptable if not criminal. Do not be too demoralized now because you can learn from this and help people in the future. But it is most important to try and get your fish into better conditions. Go to that board, find a reputable sponsor or store on the site, and go there for water testing and advice ASAP.

 

[mandfishes]

Tizzo-
Thats the book I'm reading! I t really is a good book.

 

[mandfishes]

Oh yes, I almost forgot. Your tank has to cycle before you add to many fish. I don'y even have a tank yet and I know that (no offence). ANd that seems to me like to many fish, especially at one time. Slow down some!

 

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by Sinner's Girl
I couldn't read all of your post because of the font color...

I had to right click it to hi-light it to read it. h*

 

[ophiura]

It is really important to say this to Netta -
You've come here, and asked for help.
This puts you into a very different group of people in this hobby, who saw a problem and wanted to learn how to fix it.
The mistake that was made is a fundamental one, yes. It is made every day. I do hope you will stay and learn more about the tank...but I most of all hope that everyone will try to be as helpful and constructive as possible without coming down on people for what, in their opinion, others should have known.
Because you know what? It wasn't on the same scale but when I started out in this hobby 10+ years ago, I was in nearly the same boat as you Netta....

Netta is here, in this trouble, now. Let's deal with it.

 

[netta]

OK..People easy now. I came here to ask for advice not to get beat up on . I do not have 30 in the tank, nor did I have 30 in the tank at one time. I don't believe I had 20 in the tank at the same time. If you would have read my post, this is what I got in total since I got the tank.
I know where the specific gravity is at all time. I was summarizing my figures. I keep a daily log. I'm a nurse, I test specific gravity ALL THE TIME. I'm mainly concern about the ammonia in the tank.
As far as the live sand and the crushed coral; everyone has different opinions,most books that I have read say you can use both, as well as people on the internet, and people I talk to posting.
I place a fan over the tank last night and finally got my temps 78-80 range :joy:
The only reason I put the fish in so fast, because it was a very hot day, and a long ride home.
I'm thankful for most of the advise on this post, please remember I'm hurting too

. I lost 4 of the nine fish yesterday, before I got them in the tank.
I am working hard to have nice healthy-happy fish :happyfish :happyfish :happyfish
Netta h*

 

[netta]

Originally Posted by ophiura
It is really important to say this to Netta -
You've come here, and asked for help.
This puts you into a very different group of people in this hobby, who saw a problem and wanted to learn how to fix it.
The mistake that was made is a fundamental one, yes. It is made every day. I do hope you will stay and learn more about the tank...but I most of all hope that everyone will try to be as helpful and constructive as possible without coming down on people for what, in their opinion, others should have known.
Because you know what? It wasn't on the same scale but when I started out in this hobby 10+ years ago, I was in nearly the same boat as you Netta....

Netta is here, in this trouble, now. Let's deal with it.

Ophiura

THANK YOU SOOO MUCH :help: h* I feel so much better, I have felt soo bad all day, and wanted to cry

.
Thank you for your support.

The books I have "Setting up a Saltwater Aquarium" by Gregoery Skomal, and " The New Marine Aquarium" by Michael S. Paletta
Netta