help, what have I done?!

[mykman]

Several of my fish developed velvet ick overnight. I was advised that using half the recomended dose of copper sulfate would cure the ick and not harm my biofilter or invertabrates. I tried it. It cured the ick but all my snails died. My starfish and shrimp are ok. Now I'm told that I'll never get the copper out and I ruined my live rock/sand and the tank will only be good for fish only. Can this be true?

 

[evilbob22]

Ouch... I'm sorry... I'd be really pissed at whoever told you that half the dose wouldn't hurt the inverts. The fact that all your snails died is proof that he/she was wrong. (Actually, I'm a little surprised the shrimp and starfish made it) What happens is that the copper gets absorbed into the rock and sand and even the silicone seals holding the aquarium glass. I doubt any new snails would survive, and I'd be careful with any other inverts (new shrimp, crabs, corals...).
Turn it into a positive... now you can upgrade to a bigger tank and keep the old one as a hospital/quarantine tank. :thinking:

 

[mykman]

Actually, my coral seems ok too. I guess the water changes and carbon got the copper out of the water for the most part. I wonder about the biofilter.

 

[evilbob22]

Don't get anything new for a few weeks at least. Watch for ick coming back too... if there was something wrong with the tank, it could have brought on the ick, and if it isn't fixed, it could come back. Actually, along those lines, a few questions... What size tank? what kind of fish? Any of them new? What readings are you getting (amonia, nitrate, nitrite, pH, temp)? Do you have a copper test kit yet? About how much live rock & live sand do you have? Are you using a protein skimmer? Maybe we can figure out what caused it in the first place.
By the way, Velvet and Ick are two different things, although they are pretty similar. Ick is more common and Velvet is more deadly.

 

[mykman]

60 gal including the filter sump, no skimmer,50 lbs LR,no copper test kit, nitrate ammonia and ph levels are fine but phosphates are very high (my algae crop is doing good too). The wateer temp got a little high for a while before I noticed. I'd added a yellow tang and a couple damsels to a sebae clown ,skunk dottyback and a pygmy angel. The new fish didn't get sick, the angel and clown did. I'd like a clean up crew for the algae but I'm afraid to kill them. How can I tell if my live rock is still live?

 

[evilbob22]

Well, the bacteria in the live rock should be fine... actually if your amonia and nitrite are both zero then you have proof that the bacteria is fine (or at least good enough). Even though they are fine, you are still going to have dissolved "stuff" in the water. Get a good protein skimmer... In my opinion they are the most important part of a saltwater setup after the live rock. I can't be 100% positive that's why you got ick, but it will help.
The other "live" part of live rock is the critters that live in it. If you have a lot of little critters swimming around and crawling around, then you are in pretty good shape. If not, a little more live rock will repopulate your rock after a while. You shouldn't add it in until you are pretty sure it is safe though... Get a copper test kit and when it hits zero, try a few "test" snails again. Hopefully they'll stay alive.
With sky-high phosphates, I assume you are using tap water for top offs/water changes. You will want to change to RO/DI (although get the skimmer first). If you don't want to get/can't afford an RO/DI unit, Wallmart sells RO/DI water in jugs and most of them also sell it from a machine (to put in your own jugs).
I don't personally know a lot about hypo, but it is another way to fight ick. That being said... the idea is to slowly lower the salinity until it is low enough that the ick can't survive. If you start seeing ick again, I'd lookup hypo (hyposalinity) as an alternative.
One last thing, all this is my own opinion and what I would do in your shoes. Feel free to seek other opinions, it won't bother me.

 

[fuax]

Also what kind of copper did you use was it chelated (sp.) or was ionic?
I know one of them is a lil safer for inverts I just forget which one it is and I forget which one does not get absorbed by seals and rock and can be taken out with water changes and copper removal pads in your filter.
Sorry for not having the specifics if anyone can assist with what i am triing to get across please help.
Personally I would never use copper in any tank.

 

[wax32]

Going "hypo" in your display tank is just as good a way of killing your inverts as copper, so don't do that either.

 

[evilbob22]

Originally Posted by wax32
Going "hypo" in your display tank is just as good a way of killing your inverts as copper, so don't do that either.
He doesn't have any right now. Seriously though, hypo doesn't stay in your tank afterwards, so if you remove the inverts first it is probably a better option that copper. (or even better would be to hypo a quarantine tank)

 

[mykman]

It's been 10 days now since I put in the half dose of copper sulfate. My starfish, shrimp, and coral are still ok. I no longer can find bristleworms. My nitrate and ammonia levels are ideal but I can't get that phosphate level to budge even after 3 water changes, a jar of phosban and a whole sheet of phosphate pad. I've been stirrig the sand on my clean outs. Could this be what 's causing the high phosphate? I purchase RO water. can all this algae I'm growing help in any way?

 

[tthemadd1]

Wow, I just read your thread and feel for you. Let me list a few things to make it understandable.
1. Never do Hypo or copper treat your main tank.
2. Set up a quaranteen tank ASAP
3. Never add fish to your display tank without going through the QT first.
4. You will have copper in your water for along time.
5. To reduce your phosphate you need to water change constantly, not Top off, but water
change.
6. Check your tank for voltage
7. Replace VHO bulbs every six months to a year, MH once a year.
8. Always have a test for any additives before you use them
9. What size tank do you have?
10. What are your exact water parameters?
11..!!!!! Be patient after an experience like this you really need to sit back and breathe. Dont take drastic steps without thinking long term. Really I am sorry to hear about your copper treatment. You will notice that microinverts might die off as the copper makes its way into their systems. Please whatever you do DO NOT sell that LR to other people. The copper will leach out of the rocks for some time.
Seriously, Good Luck and I wish you the best.
themadd1

 

[evilbob22]

Originally Posted by tthemadd1
11..!!!!! Be patient after an experience like this you really need to sit back and breathe. Dont take drastic steps without thinking long term.
The most important part of that post

How deep is your sand? Normally you don't stir your sand if it is deep (it screws up the semi-aerobic pockets where the nitrate -> nitrogen bacteria lives).
Physically removing some some of the algae can help remove phosphates, just don't stress the fish out if/when you do. Also if you have a refugium in your sump, macro algae like calupera will take them out too. (or you could grow the macro algae in the main tank if you like the aesthetics)

 

[tthemadd1]

Good call on the macro... I have a ton in my fuge and I have noticed my phos is now 000. Still have hair algae though, doing a lot of water changes to get down my nitrates. They spiked after adding a puffer, he eats and craps alot. Also turned off my actinic for most of the day. That usually helps. I will have to keep them off for at least a month. I know it takes time but I really like the way the actinics look. Unfortunately, I would suggest getting a ton of hermit crabs but they will have problems with that copper leaching. You might want to try a tang.. My yellow tang (died after 3 years) was the bomb at keeping my hair algae at bay. Before you buy one check for stray voltage IMO. I have seen a lot of posts lately about the stray voltage and tangs. Good luck
themadd1