Help with a rebuild!

[rlablan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlablan http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/20#post_3488736
So today We went to our LFS and decided that we wanted to try a refugium. We bought an aquafuge 2. With a few modifications, We were able to make it work with our sump and it hangs perfectly on the side, and is contained within the cabinet. It just took a little tinkering and an extension of the pipe to get it get the fuge pump below the water line in my sump.


The LFS suggested that we fill the sump with Fiji gold mud. I don't know a lot about it, but he said it was the same as miracle mud and they don't sell that so this was my only option. I bought a few bottles of pods in hopes of stocking the sand bed, fuge and LR in the DT with pods. I will also add reef stew pretty often in hopes of diversifying the life in my tank.
I'll post some pictures of the refugium all set up later. I forgot to snap some before I put the camera away.
Also, You can see in the 1st picture, just off to the right of the picture, I reorganized the cabinet beneath my tank. I added some hooks and my BF mounted some little baskets (that are actually made to stick with suction cups) that hold all of my additives and supplements so they are out of the way, and I can tell what I have. I am quite pleased with the way that it turned out
I guess I didn't word this well. It was like 1 am when I was writing this!! I Didn't buy miracle mud BUT I did buy Fiji Gold mud! I put in it and I put some in the DT like it said!!! Should I not have done that?!?!?!

Oh no! I just redid this whole tank to get rid of hair algea, cyano and slime algae!!! I placed the mud in the sump and then placed a large pieces of rock, some rubble and the pods in the fuge. Left it off for about 2 hours and then it's been running ever since!!! OMGish! OMGish! What do I do?? Is It really that bad of a product?!?!?! I have seen people using it!! Should I take it out? What about the 40 bucks worth of pods now living in it?!?!

HELP! HELP!

 

[rlablan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/20#post_3488793
Sorry to hear the rock wall didn't work. I didn't want to say it but I didn't like the way it looked either. You know once the the overflow gets covered with coraline you wont even notice it.
Yeah, you're right.
I really wasn't crazy about it but I never like anything that I make and a lot of people are like "why didn't you finish it!? I liked it..." so I thought I would try to persevere through it. Oh well. I used a store credit from Home Depot so it was basically free...
I am a lot happier with my aquascaping. I like how open it is and I hope that it's enough rock so that new additions aren't stressed. I have some room if I need to add a few more pieces. I like the quality of rock that I have too. Really very little of the smooth stuff, I have a lot of that knobby kind... Tonga?

 

[mr. limpid]

I looked at your tank pictures, they are hard to see do to the angle and they are elongated. But I like the rocks arrangement looks like the fish have plenty of place to swim through. I find that my fish no matter how small of a hole they will try to go in it.

 

[rlablan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/20#post_3488764
Awesome. I like your new little refugium and everything. It's pretty cool. I like the aquascape too.
Thank you Blitz! Nice to have you following along. Also, thanks to everyone else.
So... regarding this little Fuge...
I don't have any macro algae, I didn't really plan on getting any. I mostly got the Fuge so that I had a safe haven for pods and other critters that I will eventually add. So in the fuge now is a small amount of shells/rubble, one large piece of rock and a small jar of Fiji gold mud, plus two bottles of tigger pods.
I know that I will be under some fire for this. So here goes. Part of my new order is a mandarin. I know that it will be a struggle to keep this fish in a 60 gallon tank, but I do have the fuge now, I also run my sump high so my total water volume is about 80 gallons with the refugium, sump and DT combined. I plan to buy a bottle of pods per week. I know it's $$ but I am committed to doing this, rather than buying a whole new setup that is bigger, and more expensive to run. I feel like it'll be a big challenge but I also think that it can be done. I want to try. I hope that it is not to the detriment of the fish. I would also like to get to the point where this fish can be trained to eat frozen food. I know that it's not common, but it's not unheard of. Any tips would be really helpful and I am also prepared to take the barrage of criticism that I feel like I deserve, since I feel like it will be really hard in anything less than a 100 gallon tank. I am hoping that Buying the pods weekly will be enough, plus adding the fuge and all of that.
Moving on, with this fuge... Do I need a refuge light? I can pick one up, I just don't know the specifics and if I should. I have read that having a fuge light that runs opposite of the DT light will aid in buffering and preventing PH swings. Is this correct and also is it true? I just wonder if it really helps that much. I have also read that having a fuge and running different set ups in it/with it will aid in overall system health, coral growth, less system stress. Is this correct/true? I am not an advanced hobbyist by any means, so this stuff is definitely outside of my expertise. Can someone put this into dumbed down terms for me to understand and possibly help me to maximize the potential of my system? I would like to have a small, yet highly efficient system. I am just not sure the best way to go about this.
So bottom line ?s
- Do I need a fuge light
- Should I be growing some type of Cheatomorph/other macro
- Should I remove the fiji mud? I have not seen any proper evidence to support flowers advice (While I respect it and it has me concerned, don't a lot of people use these types of products?)
- What can I do to maximize the potential of this system. At this point, I just do water changes and I keep easy fish and corals. I want to push the envelope but I am not really to jump off of a cliff. TINY, VERY TINY baby steps. Also, I am a little special. Be gentle and talk to me like I'm 5... Then I'll get it.
Thanks in advance. Know that I ask a LOT of questions, I am not arguing. I just like to have the most info and I really do want help. I just need proof and a discussion before I do most things. I usually don't do things because someone says so.
Regards,
Rae

 

[rlablan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/40#post_3488824
I looked at your tank pictures, they are hard to see do to the angle and they are elongated. But I like the rocks arrangement looks like the fish have plenty of place to swim through. I find that my fish no matter how small of a hole they will try to go in it.
Yeah I was trying to take some interesting pictures. I will post some simpler ones so it's easier to see.

 

[rlablan]

Here are some better (hopefully) pictures of the rock work. The actinic stunner is on now, so hopefully you can see everything okay.
Also, the fuge set up and a little bit more of the reorganized cabinet and new baskets I love organization.(right side)

(left side)

(left side)
(cabinet door)

 

[flower]

Hi,
Your tank looks great, you could use a little background to really make it pop.
Please listen to me about the fiji mud and remove it. The mud is full of nutrients that feed macro algae. You want your macros if you get them, to feed on the nitrates and phosphates from your tank... so when you harvest (remove the overgrowth) you also remove nitrates and phosphates from your water. If the macros feed on the mud it isn't going to absorb the PO4 and NO3 as much. Also if you get hair algae it is going to be fed by that nutrient filled mud and no amount of water changes will get rid of it because it won't be feeding on the nutrients in your water like normal hair algae...it will be drawing food from the mud and be out of control.
The reason you don't see much concernng fiji mud is because it used for planted tanks...AKA macroalgae growth. As I said, you don't want to feed your macro, you want it to absorb your nitrates and phosphates from the water, and help keep it pristine and perfect for your corals.
I am speaking from personal experience. The macros if you even opt to get them, will have plenty to live on from your tank water. You won't need a light on the refugium unless you also keep macros. If decide to have macros you will need a light on the fuge.
As for a mandarine, you need your refugium to be seeded with copepods and allowed to breed for about a year so you have an abundant supply. Even if you purchase copepods there are only about 200 to 500 in each little container they sell for $10.00 (from the online store I shop from anyway) and the mandarine will gobble those up in a single day. So use the manta...tiny, very tiny baby steps.... and go very slow to add this fish.
Macro algae like Chaeto is awesome for your fuge and it is loaded naturally with pods. When it grows you remove the extra and share with friends, or toss it...as you do you also remove the nitrates (NO3) and Phosphates (PO4) from your system keeping your water pristine. Marcoalgae is the easiest, cheapest and most effective way to control nitrates and phosphates that harm your corals and inverts.

 

[rlablan]

Thanks flower. Appreciate it
I don't really like look of the background all of the time. I have another tank, my smaller guy, within 25 feet of this one and it has the black background. I kinda wanted to go for a different look. Thanks though.
So as far as this mud is concerned, I haven't seen any definitive proof that this mud is good or bad. I looked on some of the other reef sites and the only thing people are saying is that they think it's bad because it doesn't do anything. It's too expensive or it's just some random mud. No stories or details of any spikes or any algae growth. I did see like 2 that were mild annoyance type cases, but even the people involved said there were too many factors and they couldn't prove at all that it was from the mud they had in the tank.
Some people are reporting increased film algae on the DT glass, but that their pod populations have "Exploded" after the addition of the mud and other say the coloration of their corals have improved dramatically. I am trying to diversify the life within my tank, sounds like this should do it.
I also searched this site and saw that in 2/11, you commented that you had added miracle mud or some other type to your fuge. Did something bad happened and this is why you're telling me not to use it? I guess I just don't get it. I also saw a post from you regarding your sea horses and a power outage. You said you didn't like the stuff, but other people in this same thread (With what seem to be reef tanks) have said that they liked it and have had great success with it. You told the OP not to put any in his system because he had existing hair algae. I don't have hair algae ANYMORE. I don't see any evidence of it, ATM.
Even on this sight, I didn't see anything that said to stay away from this because it's harmful. And these were reef tanks they were discussing, though some were also planted. I guess I don't see any reason not to try it. A lot of people, the majority of them on the world wide net are saying they like it.
My LFS said he runs it at home and in a few of their DTs, they aren't planted. He DID say that Miracle mud is garbage. I just read an article online about miracle mud and how there is no evidence that it's even from the ocean and that it's got no trace elements or nutrients in it. This article and thread was only about Miracle mud. People on the thread said that they agreed that miracle mud was not no good but that they preferred Walt Smiths Fiji mud, which is what I've purchased, not miracle mud.

 

[rlablan]

So this all leads to the question about chaeto.
As I understand it, Chaeto is the green wiry looking macro that tumbles in a ball in the sump or fuge under a light?
Pods like to live and breed within it.
Chaeto eats phos and nitrates and if you don't have any in your system, it won't sustain and the ball will just sort of die off.
I have tried chaeto before in several different systems and setups. It always deteriorated and died off. I have tried to also get it from different sources. So it can't be the chaeto that's bad. Plus none of my systems, until this one have ever had a high or really even a constant level of Phos or Nitr in them to sustain chaeto. (hope that made sense)
The only reason this system had the levels that it did, was because I was neglecting them and not doing water changes enough. The hair algae bloom, I believe, was due to lack of flow, plus feeding on the poor water quality, and was allowed to flourish from a long intense lighting schedule because I didn't realize how much light was produced by my LED fixture.
Now I have much less lighting, vastly increased flow, newly cleaned and soaked rock, new LS and a refugium.
I can add cheato to the system but I don't really see the point since testing now indicated that I have no Phos and no Nitrates. If I keep up on the bi weekly WCs, then those numbers should stay down and therefore no food for the chaeto ?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlablan http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/40#post_3488860
So this all leads to the question about chaeto.
As I understand it, Chaeto is the green wiry looking macro that tumbles in a ball in the sump or fuge under a light?
Pods like to live and breed within it.
Chaeto eats phos and nitrates and if you don't have any in your system, it won't sustain and the ball will just sort of die off.
I have tried chaeto before in several different systems and setups. It always deteriorated and died off. I have tried to also get it from different sources. So it can't be the chaeto that's bad. Plus none of my systems, until this one have ever had a high or really even a constant level of Phos or Nitr in them to sustain chaeto. (hope that made sense)
The only reason this system had the levels that it did, was because I was neglecting them and not doing water changes enough. The hair algae bloom, I believe, was due to lack of flow, plus feeding on the poor water quality, and was allowed to flourish from a long intense lighting schedule because I didn't realize how much light was produced by my LED fixture.
Now I have much less lighting, vastly increased flow, newly cleaned and soaked rock, new LS and a refugium.
I can add cheato to the system but I don't really see the point since testing now indicated that I have no Phos and no Nitrates. If I keep up on the bi weekly WCs, then those numbers should stay down and therefore no food for the chaeto ?

If you do regular water changes macros are not needed to bring them down. I hated chaeto,it would break apart and get into everything. I have a ton of other macroalgae, I decided I just don't like that one. I will say that the "water quaility" and you neglecting the tank and having hair algae means you did have NO3 and plenty of PO4 in your tank. If have overcome these without macros, then I wouldn't bother. There is no rule that says you need macroalgae in your refugium. As for pods...they love just about any macro and do fine in rock without macros.

 

[mr. limpid]

Just my two cents on clean up crew, macro algae, skimmers and any additional filtration. Not needed for new systems under a 1 year old tanks (you want build up so bacteria can multiply). As tanks mature there are build ups of additional nutrients that water changes can not keep up with, first addition is a clean up crew (a lot to choose from type depends on likes and requirements of tank). Second addition, of additional filtration depends on type of tank (reef or fish only), addition of macro algae and or skimmers (certain corals will consume nitrates and organics). My theory is let your tank mature, test water to see what additional requirements are need to help keep water changes to a norm.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/40#post_3488963
Just my two cents on clean up crew, macro algae, skimmers and any additional filtration. Not needed for new systems under a 1 year old tanks (you want build up so bacteria can multiply). As tanks mature there are build ups of additional nutrients that water changes can not keep up with, first addition is a clean up crew (a lot to choose from type depends on likes and requirements of tank). Second addition, of additional filtration depends on type of tank (reef or fish only), addition of macro algae and or skimmers (certain corals will consume nitrates and organics). My theory is let your tank mature, test water to see what additional requirements are need to help keep water changes to a norm.
Say what????? A new unmature tank needs more filtration and help to remove nitrates and phosphates by establishing the macros, just the opposite of what you wrote....A CUC is #1 on the list of must haves...because it doesn't have the balance an older mature tank does. A well established tank can run without filters or skimmers if you have macroalgae and plenty of live rock....The CUC is always needed and should be replenished when the starters die off from age.

or did I misunderstand what you wrote...because you also say first addition is the CUC?????

 

[sweatervest13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlablan http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/40#post_3488835
Here are some better (hopefully) pictures of the rock work. The actinic stunner is on now, so hopefully you can see everything okay.
Also, the fuge set up and a little bit more of the reorganized cabinet and new baskets I love organization.(right side)

(left side)

(left side)
(cabinet door)
Hi,
The tank looks GOOD. I really like the look of the rock work, you have lots of negative space on the sand. I think it looks very cool, and it gives you a good amount of space for corals that like to be on the sand.
The shelves and baskets in the cabinet are genus!! Very handy dandy.
As for the fuge.. I would pack that baby full of LR rubble (this is if you are not doing macro's). It will give the pods lots of places to multiply. I am not touching that mud question. You and Flower both have made some good points. So time will tell, I guess on this one.
Good luck with the livestock you have coming in. Besides the mandarine what else do you have coming??

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/40#post_3489070
Say what????? A new unmature tank needs more filtration and help to remove nitrates and phosphates by establishing the macros, just the opposite of what you wrote....A CUC is #1 on the list of must haves...because it doesn't have the balance an older mature tank does. A well established tank can run without filters or skimmers if you have macroalgae and plenty of live rock....The CUC is always needed and should be replenished when the starters die off from age.

or did I misunderstand what you wrote...because you also say first addition is the CUC?????
What is a clean up crew suppose to clean up in a new tank????? A clean up crew is need once fish (and not right away) are introduced then there is something to clean up. Algae grows from unused organics no fish no waste no organics yet. Say that!!!!!

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/40#post_3489084
What is a clean up crew suppose to clean up in a new tank????? A clean up crew is need once fish (and not right away) are introduced then there is something to clean up. Algae grows from unused organics no fish no waste no organics yet. Say that!!!!!
The last words of "Say that" with all the !!!!!.... looks like I might have offended you, and I ment no disrespect...it was a true question on what you meant. I used live sand and live rock...I had an algae bloom or should I say diatoms, right after the cycle, before I added fish. I have set up about 8 saltwater tanks so far over the years, and it's been the same on each one. The seahorse tank took a while (sterile tank) but the algae bloom came. Aside from the 56g (rehoming the horses from a 30g long tank) I always added the CUC before I added anything else. I have never just dumped a fish in a tank after it just cleared a cycle for the first time....I actually wait for the algae bloom.

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/40#post_3489088
The last words of "Say that" with all the !!!!!.... looks like I might have offended you, and I ment no disrespect...it was a true question on what you meant. I used live sand and live rock...I had an algae bloom or should I say diatoms, right after the cycle, before I added fish. I have set up about 8 saltwater tanks so far over the years, and it's been the same on each one. The seahorse tank took a while (sterile tank) but the algae bloom came. Aside from the 56g (rehoming the horses from a 30g long tank) I always added the CUC before I added anything else. I have never just dumped a fish in a tank after it just cleared a cycle for the first time....I actually wait for the algae bloom.
I'm glad to hear that you weren't starting something, I have always considered you a cyber friend, but when you started out with "Say what?????" I thought we going down a wrong path.

Diatom blooms will go away also clean up crews wont touch brown algae. Also I know you didn't mean "just dump fish in a tank" They should be added about 1 every 2 months in the first year, so in the first year you'll only have 4 fish and you should start see ditrus build up and or green algae after 6 months. Then a clean up crew would need to be figured out. That is all I'm try to say. Friends again Flower?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/40#post_3489090
I'm glad to hear that you weren't starting something, I have always considered you a cyber friend, but when you started out with "Say what?????" I thought we going down a wrong path.

Diatom blooms will go away also clean up crews wont touch brown algae. Also I know you didn't mean "just dump fish in a tank" They should be added about 1 every 2 months in the first year, so in the first year you'll only have 4 fish and you should start see ditrus build up and or green algae after 6 months. Then a clean up crew would need to be figured out. That is all I'm try to say. Friends again Flower?
Always friends...it's hard on cyber space sometimes to actually know the intent... words can give a wrong impression, even a comma in the wrong place. That's why I was quick to explain myself, I consider most folks on the site as good friends always ready to help....I assure you that is my attitude towards others, I just want to help.
CUCs often can contain more than just snails...hermit crabs love brown diatom algae. Over the years I have learned to leave crabs out of the tank, they are mean and kill snails...However in my reef tanks, the hermit crab was my choice for getting rid of brown algae...I didn't know brown algae would go away on it's own until I read it on this site...I had added hermits so fast it never had the chance to go away on it's own in my tanks.

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/40#post_3489120
Always friends...it's hard on cyber space sometimes to actually know the intent... words can give a wrong impression, even a comma in the wrong place. That's why I was quick to explain myself, I consider most folks on the site as good friends always ready to help....I assure you that is my attitude towards others, I just want to help.
CUCs often can contain more than just snails...hermit crabs love brown diatom algae. Over the years I have learned to leave crabs out of the tank, they are mean and kill snails...However in my reef tanks, the hermit crab was my choice for getting rid of brown algae...I didn't know brown algae would go away on it's own until I read it on this site...I had added hermits so fast it never had the chance to go away on it's own in my tanks.
Which type of crab, just asking because I have blue and red legged hermits in FOWL the never touch any brown only the green. All we need now is ahermit that will eat cyno.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/392624/help-with-a-rebuild/40#post_3489244
Which type of crab, just asking because I have blue and red legged hermits in FOWL the never touch any brown only the green. All we need now is a hermit that will eat cyno.
LOL...I WISH!
I had every type of hermit you could imagine, from red, scarlet, blue and dwarf white... I had lots of algae eating fish so there wasn't much green algae to be had. The fish didn't bother the brown, so that's what my hermits lived on. Between the LMB, the Hippo tang and the Lemonpeel angelfish, for the green and the hermits on the brown...I had no algae problems whatsoever. Because of the hermits snails had a tough time and I was always replacing them and adding shells in hopes that the hermits would leave them alone and to a certain extent that did help, eventually I quit purchasing snails altogether...yet when I tore down the reef I still had plenty.
Hermits eat anything, brown, or green algae, dead fish and (BIG SIGH) snails. They wont bother coral or macroalgae. However no macro was safe from the tang.

 

[rlablan]

Hey guys.
Sorry to leave all of this sort of open ended.
It seems that my contacts scratched the crap out of my cornia. I have been living like a vampire pirate, shrinking away from light and looking at everything from the right side of my face.
I slept in my contacts, for one evening, for the first time in a few weeks (which I had been doing for YEARS) and woke up in the AM with a very large abrasion across the whole front of my eye. I dealt with the pain for a few hours and it was getting worse, very rapidly. I went to the eye doctor for an emergency appointment. I got some drops and things... Doc says that in her 25 years, it's the biggest and deepest abrasion she's every seen.
So I can finally look at something bright without crying. I feel so much better. And (hopefully) I am back for good, with no permanent damage to my eyeball.
Now, onto the thread...