Help with Clown! Twitching and breathing hard

[cufishfan]

Help! My larger osc. clown is twitching and breathing hard. I have 2 clowns (one I got about 2 weeks ago) and this one who I've had for about 2 months.
Water params are all good- I checked yesterday
SG 1.025
pH 8.2
nitrate- >5 ppm
nitrite- 0 ppm
temp 80*
I've noticed that he wasn't as active as he usually is, and for the first time he didn't eat this morning when I fed the tank. He's been hanging out near the bottom by the rock where he sleeps. I just saw him swim to the front of the tank and he started twitching for about 2 seconds, stopped, then twitched again. He seems to be breathing hard.
I see no signs of aggression by anyone else (sm Osc. clown, royal gramma, 2 green chromis) in my 75 g. No signs of ich or sores or anything.
What can I do for him? He's looking worse now than he did this morning and I'm worried

 

[cufishfan]

I thought of a way to describe the 'twitching'... he goes rigid for a split second and then looks like he's getting electrocuted. There is no stray current in my tank and none of the other fish/inverts seems to be having any issues.
And I should have posted this in the disease forum, sorry. If it can be moved, I would really appreciate it.

 

[swimmer4uus]

Have you done anything to the tank lately that's out of the norm? If not, I think it's just the clown being a clown. I read somewhere on here, that they're called clownfish for a reason. My True Perc seems to do the same action you are describing, but she does it for a reason. She does that on the sand, and then turns around and see's if she kicked up anything interesting that she can eat. Hopefully someone else can give you help

 

[cufishfan]

I'm not sure if there's a reason. I added a royal gramma 2 days ago, but my clown was a little sluggish even before. Since posting earlier tonight, she's come out more and ate a little bit of brine shrimp (nothing like her normal appetite).
About 3 weeks ago I added a tiny osc. clown, hoping they'd mate or at least keep each other company. The large one is about 3-4", the small, new one is barely 1", so it's not like territory is being threatened.
The twitching/tics are still happening and they look bad to me, but don't seem to bother the fish very much. Haven't noticed any slime coat, can't see any white spots, no noticeable rubbing against anything, swimming in different levels of the tank (not just at the bottom or surface). Breathing heavily, but not trying to take air in at the surface. ..

I haven't found any info on a disease that sounds like what I'm seeing... so I'm going to keep an eye out, get some garlic for the food and hope for the best. Although if anyone has ANY suggestions, I'd love them.

 

[swimmer4uus]

What's your pump setup like? I wonder how well the oxygen exchange is going. I have my powerheads all pointing at the surface of the water to have good surface agitation.

 

[cufishfan]

I have around 20x flow between my koralias and return pump, and I have one PH pointed up to agitate the surface and others pointed down to move flow across the bottom. So I think the flow is ok and the water quality has always been very consistent. Temp fluctuates less than 2* per day (78-80 range)

 

[swimmer4uus]

Yeah, most people already know to point one right at the top, but I was just wondering. Idk man, the only thing I can say is keep an eye on it. Maybe it's just acting wierd, or might not feel good for whatever reason.

I hope someone else I can help you out more than me.

 

[cufishfan]

Ok I'm starting to worry again.
My clown perked up again Monday night (I noticed him being particularly sluggish on Sunday). Was swimming around more, but didn't eat.
Generally looks better- still breathing heavily- mouth is always open, but stays towards the bottom in a corner, facing the glass (unusual behavior). And has not eaten since Sat/Sunday- used to have the biggest appetite ever!
Starting using garlic to try to encourage appetite (and all the other fish LOVE it), but still no real improvement (now Wednesday).
What should I do??

 

[yearofthenick]

There are multiple reasons why a clown would twitch like that. I've seen most of my clowns do it in the past.
The most likely reason it's twitching is because of the smaller clown you put in the tank. It's not establishing it's territory so much as it's just interacting with the other clown. Seriously, every time I've added a second clown to a tank, one of the two of them twitch at each other.
Another reason your existing clown could be keeping to herself is because the smaller one HAS established dominance. The reason I say "herself" is because the female clowns are larger and males are smaller. The small clown you added could be a male. Not sure why this would happen though, because it's usually the females who are more dominant.
The only other thing I can think of is that your bigger clown is in the early stages of brooklynella. I've noticed every time I have a clown with brooklynella, it gets into a trance-like state, and swims in the same location, breathing fast. The biggest give away to whether or not it's brooklynella though is if the clown appears to be "shedding skin" which looks like a white flaky film that forms around its body. The best way to treat this is by giving your clown a Formalin bath. If you choose to go that route, make absolutely sure your clown has brooklynella FIRST, because formalin baths are really hard on the clown.
Can you post a few pics?

 

[yearofthenick]

This is a clown with brooklynella. See it's back?
The brooklynella can start anywhere though... it doesn't always start on the back.

 

[cufishfan]

I'll definitely post pics when I get home.
I haven't seen any skin issues at all- no Ich spots or itching/rubbing, no skin peeling off, no cuts, nipped fins, sores... but I'll definitely keep an eye out for it.
I noticed my nitrite was creeping up a little (>0 but still <.25), so I started making some water yesterday for a big water change tonight (about 20 gallons). So maybe that will help, but nitrite levels were definitely at 0 when my clown started acting funny.
I haven't noticed so much twitching anymore, my main concerns are
1- not eating
2- breathing heavily
and a little bit of 3- change in swimming behavior.
Thanks for everyone's help so far. I'll get some pictures posted tonight, but if anyone else has any ideas, I'd love to hear them!

 

[yearofthenick]

nitrite or nitrate?

 

[cufishfan]

NitrIte.
I had some red-slime issues that wouldn't go away with decreased feeding, shorter photo-period, so I used something (chemi-clean?) that caused it to die-off.
I normally wouldn't add chemicals to the tank, but I couldn't get rid of it. It worked really well, and I've already planned a large water change to deal with the die off.
I also have bio-balls, which I think might have something to do with it, but I'm getting rid of it as soon as I can finish the sump I'm building. I'm trying to address all my issues, it's just taking me a little time and money to get there.

 

[yearofthenick]

Originally Posted by CUfishfan
http:///forum/post/2998421
NitrIte.
I had some red-slime issues that wouldn't go away with decreased feeding, shorter photo-period, so I used something (chemi-clean?) that caused it to die-off.
I normally wouldn't add chemicals to the tank, but I couldn't get rid of it. It worked really well, and I've already planned a large water change to deal with the die off.
I also have bio-balls, which I think might have something to do with it, but I'm getting rid of it as soon as I can finish the sump I'm building. I'm trying to address all my issues, it's just taking me a little time and money to get there.
No problem man. Sounds like you're headed in the right direction.
As for bioballs, you can continue using them, they're just higher maintenance. You need to clean half of them every 6 months.
Have you checked your phosphate levels? They might be high too. If so, a water change will help with that, or you can use PhosBan.

 

[cufishfan]

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get a picture last night- big water change and my stupid sump project took way longer than I thought, and then my clown wouldn't cooperate.
I'm still not seeing any skin issues- no signs of Ich or Brooklynella (knock on wood)
But she's still not eating (since Saturdayish) - I think I saw her go for one piece of mysis, but definitely not the appetite I'm used to.
Still not swimming like normal, and her mouth is almost always open- a constant open and closing.

Everyone else looks great though. Still not sure what I should be doing- just wait it out and see?

 

[yearofthenick]

Yes, I would wait it out. Fish also get stressed out by water changes and it probably didn't help your clowns situation, although it will in the long run (Cleaner water, I mean).