Help with nitrates and phosphates

[salt210]

I've been fighting to get them both down for awhile. the readings that Im getting are 20 to 40 for nitrates( test colors too light to be 40 and to dark for 20) and 10ppm for phospahtes. these results are from an API test kit. I've done about 50 percent change of water over about 2 weeks. I use IO salt and a RO/DI unit. the water in my mixing container showed 0 for both of these readings. my filtration consists of a nautilus TE and a pro clear wet/dry 300 with bio balls. I have about 150 to 200lbs of live rock now. last weekend drained all of the water that I could out of the sump and 2 weeks before that I completely removed all of the bioballs and cleaned them in salt water that I was removing from the tank. I shook them in the water as hard as I possibly could. I do have an algae problem that seems to be getting better. I removed the filter pad that was in the wet/dry a while back thinking that could have been a cause. there is a sponge in the bottom of the wet/dry to stop bubbles from getting into the return pump area and this is cleaned regularly as well. sorry for the long post but I am stumped on this problem. the inhabitants in the tank are 5 damsels, a 4-5in lion, a 3-4in koran, 2-3in stars and stripes puffer, and a 2ft zebra moray. the water is turned over about 17x with just my powerheads. thanks in advance for any advice that you may give. at this point I will be willing to try anything that you guys and girls may say.

 

[rtspeed]

Well to total kill all the nitrates on your bioballs you need to soak them in vinegar, IMO just get rid of the bio balls and replace it with live rock rubble. also you can do a area with a deep sand bed to help control the nitrates. As for phosphates i would have to belive that they are eithier getting in threw your change water or therw a chemical that you are using in the tank, as if this is a fish only setup the just try a UV light to kill the phoaphat or just hook one up to your RO unit to help out.

 

[salt210]

ill try and clean them in vinegar. how long would they have to soak in it? there is a uv sterilizer connected to the tank as well. it is a 25w unit. I was thinking selling or trading it and getting 2 smaller units instead. also I've tested my change water with no trace of phosphates or nitrates in it. I thought that is could have been a source so I tested it when I did my last change. the only chemical that I have recently put in the tank is purple up, but I stopped doing that when I read that it was bad to do so since I only have a FOWLR at the moment.

 

[salt210]

with the LR suggestion would that be enough filtration? I would only be able to stack it maybe 8in high without there being to much water. what about fake decorations? could that be a problem as well?

 

[gmann1139]

As for the nitrates, ditto on getting rid of the bioballs. LR is your best bet for bio filtration.
As for the phosphates, I'm pretty sure the UV filter will have no effect on that. If you are feeding frozen food, that is a notorious source of phosphates.
You might want to look at adding some sort of refugium/macroalgae setup to reduce both. That's the method a lot of folks here have pursued, with good results.

 

[al mc]

What can help, IMHO
1. Increase water volume...solution to pollution is dilution ( add a larger sump/refugium)
2. As suggested...remove or clean 'nitrate factories'...bioballs, dirty filter media, etc.
3. Export it....Macroalgaes in a refugium and/or a remote deep sand bed.
4. Reduce bioload...Either fewer fish or less food
5. Skim like crazy to remove some of the organics in the water before they break down.
How large is the tank and sump?

 

[salt210]

the tank is a 210. I don't know the specifics of the sump. when I purchased the tank it all came together. all I know is that it is a pro clear 300. as for the bio load it shouldn't be anywhere near where it could be? I only have 8 fish and an eel? as for the food I do not feed frozen cubes but I do used krill, prawn and shrimp. I also use ocean nutrition pellets.

 

[rtspeed]

Well alot of the phosates come from the gel that they use to pack the frozen food in, the 2 opitions you have is to start using fresh food or washing your food in saltwater before feeding it, but i don't believe this is the causr of your phosphate problem.

 

[salt210]

what do you guys think about the fake plants and dcorations that are in the tank as well? could they be a source?

 

[al mc]

Originally Posted by salt210
http:///forum/post/2686633
what do you guys think about the fake plants and dcorations that are in the tank as well? could they be a source?
unlikely, unless they have lots of detrius attached/imbedded in them.

 

[salt210]

ill take them out and clean them as well. should I clean them in vinegar as well?

 

[timbodmb]

Do you disturb your sand bed or vacuum it? I was told this would bring my trates down so I consistantly did this. Once I stopped however, my trates went down to 0... for 6 weeks now.

 

[schnutzzy]

I also have a wet/dry and my trates are about 20. I have tryed everything including taking out the bio-balls completley over time and nothing has really changed. I know if I want 0 trates I have to go to a sump/refugium with sand and chaeto. If you find the answer I would love to know because it will be another expence I am not looking forward to. Good luck!!

 

[salt210]

schnuttzy
lets see if we can find a common between and us and see if that helps. what kind of substrate do you have? mine is a crushed coral. im also going to clean the bioballs with vinegar. one thing im worried about is the sponge in the bottom of the wet dry. even with periodic cleaning it probably stays pretty dirty.

 

[schnutzzy]

My substrate is live sand (about 1 1/2") 110lbs. of live fiji rock and a 20 gallon wet/dry (bio-balls removed) on a 72 bowfront with 2x250 MH lighting. I didn't use live rock rubble to replace the bio-balls because I have read on here they have to be cleaned just like bio-balls. My livestock is only 5 small fish to go with all my corals and a hermit crab 20 or so clean-up crew. I feed every other day and rinse all my food in salt tank water to help keep the phosphates down. Both of the LFS's I go to say that 20 nitrate is ok, but on this site all I here is everyone having 0 nitrates. I really think the differance is the sump/fuge idea. I have never heard on here of anyone with 0 nitrates that are running a wet/dry unless it has been modded to a fuge. Thanks for asking my input because I'm all ears if I can get the nitrates to 0.

 

[al mc]

Originally Posted by schnutzzy
http:///forum/post/2692074
My substrate is live sand (about 1 1/2") 110lbs. of live fiji rock and a 20 gallon wet/dry (bio-balls removed) on a 72 bowfront with 2x250 MH lighting. I didn't use live rock rubble to replace the bio-balls because I have read on here they have to be cleaned just like bio-balls. My livestock is only 5 small fish to go with all my corals and a hermit crab 20 or so clean-up crew. I feed every other day and rinse all my food in salt tank water to help keep the phosphates down. Both of the LFS's I go to say that 20 nitrate is ok, but on this site all I here is everyone having 0 nitrates. I really think the differance is the sump/fuge idea. I have never heard on here of anyone with 0 nitrates that are running a wet/dry unless it has been modded to a fuge. Thanks for asking my input because I'm all ears if I can get the nitrates to 0.

It is difficult to keep your nitrates at or near zero without exporting them via a deep sand bed or macroalgae. However, I do think you are doing a good job if you can keep them below 20 with a wet/dry only system.
Salt: IMHO, the crushed coral is probably adding to your nitrate problems. I used cc originally at the suggestion of my LFS and could not keep my nitrates less than 20 without massive (50% plus) water changes. Once I went to sand it became much easier....Note: some of the improvement may have been to aging live rock, feeding abit less as well.

 

[schnutzzy]

Thanks for the info AlMac.

 

[afboundguy]

If you can't get a sump with a fuge in it you could always do a HOB fuge like one from Aquafuge. You could even get one with a skimmer in it for a little more skimming action but I don't know if it's worth the extra money for it.
I did a DIY in tank fuge consisting of a speciman container that I drilled holes in and a big hole to insert one end of the powerhead and my nitrates went from ~10ppm to undetectable with my test kit. I also have a DSB in my display tank.

 

[xtreeme]

phosphate
http://www.tropic-marin.com/web/english/homepage.html

 

[salt210]

im starting to seriously consider the fuge route at this point and then eventually going to a deep sand bed, even if I have to do alittle at a time. it looks a heck of a lot better anyways