help!

[tiffany]

I have been trying to set up a new reef tank, it has been running for about 2 months now. How do I know exactly when it has stopped cycling. Also, I have had no amonia or nitrite signs, but my nitrates are very high. This is also true in my 55 gal tank. I also just started getting maroon carpet algae in my 55 gal, why is htis? Help please!

 

[adrian]

Tiff, Welcome to SWF.com During a cycle first your ammonia will rise, then fall while the nitrites rise, then the trites will fall as the nitrates rise, once the nitrates fall to undetectable levels the cycle is over. The maroon carpet algae your reffering to is called cyanobacteria and is usually the result of excess nutrients, poor lighting, poor current or a combo of 2-3 of these. Usually it has to do with nurtrient buildup which is a result of overfeeding, lack of a skimmer or other means of nutrient export, ie carbon, refugium, water changes, DSB, or a combination of more than one of these. Give us a good run down of your system and its history so we can help you further.

 

[tiffany]

55 gal
20 pounds of fiji rock, which was live at one time
a few pieces of ornamental coral
Hawaiian Naso Tang (5 inch)
lion fish (8-10 inch)
2 tomato clowns (2 in) & (3 in)
3/4 in to 1 in of crushed coral for the bottom
protein skimmer
2, 330 bio wheel filters
The problem I always have is my nitrates never go back down liek they should. About 5 or 6 years ago when I switched to salt water, I was going to a pet store in Salem, NH and they walked me through the process of a reef tank. That is the only time I didn't do the process alone. It was also the only time my nitrates went back down. My 55 gal had no nitrates until I added the live rock, they then shot up and haven't come down since. Honestly, I love fish and know a great deal about them, but I am getting fed up. I want my tank to be a pretty reef and not just have awesome fish swimming in it. That's why I figured my 20 gallon could do the trick. If the fish in my 55 gal would last in a reef without destroying it, I would love to change that into a reef. Thanks for your time

 

[von_rahvin]

WOW you have alot of fish in your tank!!!!!! lions are not sutible for reef tanks. Tangs should be the last fish added to a mature tank. you might want to consider a DSB (deep sand bed) THe reason you have the all the algea and the spikes is you tank is way over loaded. What kind of lion is it?? It seems as though you were misled by your LFS (local fish store) Reef tanks are things of months and years. every single ish addition must be though through and nothing rushed. sinc emost of the filtration on a reef tank is biological, you have to give the bacteria time to grow in response to the new waste that is in the water. I hope you can get it under control.

 

[fshhub]

more lr will probably help, BUT
IMO the cc and bio wheels are probably part of your problem,
i would second the idea of a dsb and a couple of powerheads
one other thing, how is your skimmer doing, and what type is it, this could also be a contributor(if too small for your load or not working properly)
HTH

 

[burnnspy]

I recommend that you buy a good reef manual before you move further into the hobby. Knowledge is the best way to prevent serious disaster in this hobby.
BurnNspy

 

[tiffany]

I do own several reef manuals and have had no problems up until now. The tank has been running for 4 years and the store that informed me of all my first info is one of the best in this area, they know the most about reefs and sell the biggest supply. I don't see how you can say my tank is overloaded I only have 4 fish in it!!
As for the tank the original question was about, noone seemed to destroy me on that! As far as that goes, there is also a protein skimmer, 1/2 inch of crushed coral, 2 damsels
So why is the bio wheel such a problem, that is the only kind of filter sold around here! As long as everyone is done bashing the newcomer, I would like to see if anyone had any solutions to offer me or where I should begin?

 

[tiffany]

I also forgot, I had a deep sand bed, but recently got rid of it and replaced it with the crushed corals, should i go back to it?

 

[kelly]

Tiffany,
I am sorry you feel that you are being bashed. When we find mistakes that seem blatently obvious to us, we make assumptions.
No one here is trying to hurt your progress, but only wish to help.
The # of fish in a 55 gallon tank is not relevant, but size is. You tank for a reef tank is overloaded, and the biological filter can not keep up with it.
I assume that you are trying to get the 20 gallon tank going as a reef tank if I am reading you post correctly. You should go back to a deep sand bed. I currently have a 80 gallon tank with crushed coral, and no problems. It has been up for 10+ years. It has an undergravel filter to boot. I would not recommend doing it this way though, even though it worked for me, it does not work for most people, and can crash, killing everything fairly easily.
Get a DSB of about 4", add live rock until you get about 20-30 lbs. Make sure you have good lighting, and good water flow. Let the tank cycle, and go from there. It is good to have a good skimmer, but is not 100% necessary.
The people here have a nothing to gain by helping you, and it would be to your best interest to listen to them. I started my first saltwater tank over 30 years ago, and I am still learning.
Your new tank will finish the cycle when the nitrates drop to 0, unless you are over feeding. Like Adrian said, the cynobacteria is probably from to many nutrients in the tank, poor water flow, or poor lighting. Get the books back out and do some reading. One of my earlier reef tanks took 6 weeks to cycle, so do not rush things, it just depends on what you did in reference to LR, substrate, etc. Two months is not a lot of time for the biological filter to get balanced for the bio load.
In the larger tank, good luck getting the nitrates down unless you add a refugium, do water changes, cut back on feeding, possibly add some macro-algea, etc. When was the last time you change your lighting on the 55 gallon tank?

 

[tiffany]

Kelly, thank you for your advice! I changed the light on the 55 in march. I honestly don't know what to do with the large tank. It has been runnign fine for years with this nitrate problem and I am wondering why. My fish are growing like weeds (as you can tell) ! The smaller tank I do want to turn into a reef. I would love to turn my big one into one as well, but I really don't want to give up my lion fish, since I have had him for 3 years. Would it make sense to put the lion in the 20 gallon alone and change the large tank to a reef? I am confused and just need advice. Thank you for being considerate!
My choices are to switch my fish around or to just leave be and start the small one as a reef. Is it possible for live rock to die? Also do you recomend any kind of power heads, since it seems like I should have them?

 

[m1rodrig]

your nitrate is being caused by excessive ammonia being converted to nitrite then nitrate.Either something dying in your tank or excessive food not being eaten and rotting,excessive fish waste being converted .Try cutting back on your feedings and doing water changes every week until nitrates come down.

 

[tiffany]

Kelly, sorry I forgot to ask a few other questions....
I should put 20-30 lbs of rock in the 20 or 55 gal tank? Also why is it live sand doesn't build up nitrates?

 

[m1rodrig]

What are you calling high nitrates?Do you have any corals in tank or fish only.Nitrates have less effect on fish than corals

 

[tiffany]

The 55 gal has nitrates over 100 ppm, they are off the chart!!! I have fish, no corals. Are you kidding no inverts would last with those levels. I do have rock which was once live and now I think dead. I am not sure if that's the problem. Any advice would help... My smaller tank is at about 20 ppm.

 

[jimi]

A dsb helps elliminate nitrates by harboring the type of bacteria needed to complete the nitrogen cycle. This type of bacteria needs a low oxygen enviorment which the dsb provides converting nitrate to nitrogen gas. Your bioload is too high and you have large waste producing fish. A cc bed and biowheel are great at producing nitrate. Over 100! is bad, hard to believe you fish are healthy. More live rock and a large skimmer may help. If you dont want to switch back to a dsb atleast take out the cc and use more live rock with a bare bottom. A cc bed is a waste trap.

 

[adrian]

Tiff, your nitrate problem is most likely being caused by the bio wheels because biological media can only harbor bacteria that will break down ammonia into nitrites and then nitrates, a functional live DSB will do all of that as well as break nitrates down into free nitrogen which is then released into the atmosphere. A DSB is all you need for biological filtration, live rock helps also, but its mostly useful for seeding the sand with critters to care for it, providing places to place corals and allow fish to seek refuge, and for looks. Nitrates have to be at very high concentrations to be toxic to most creatures. A book by Ron Shemik was just published that covers the DSB method, I think its called sand bed secrets, I loaned my copy out so I dont have it handy HTH

 

[tiffany]

Adrian, thanks for the advice....could you read the messages Isent to kelly? I was wondering if yo ucould answer any of those questions for me? If I put the DSB back and add the rock you think this will help? Can I keep the bio wheels, because I spent a good amount of money on them? If i should get rid of them what should I use instead?

 

[tiffany]

Adrian is it possible for me to keep the rock I have (whether it be alive or dead) and seed it with live rock? Or should I remove all the current rock and get new rock?

 

[fshhub]

tiffany, 1st, i hope my post did not appear as bashing, and as for your rock, you can seed it with new lr and it should start to regrow(if in fact it is dead, maybe only the algae is dead on it), as for the bio wheels,we removed ours, and use the filter with no media, only for circulation, and to add carbon when necessary
another thing, this hobby has changed much in the past several years, not being rude, but take a look at the copyright on your books, maybe they are outdated
and i would (personally) go back to a dsb
as for powerheads, IMO i like maxi jets and hagen, please do avoid the powersweeps and rios
as for the lr question , IMO, i would add at least 30 mor lbs to your 55 gallon, but then again, 20 or 30 lbs(total) would also be the suggestion for a 20 gallon
again, none of this is meant to be rude, i personally just tyr to answer without getting too wordy(which is difficult at best) because the responses can get quite long
BTW
WELCOME ABOARD

 

[fishfood]

I didn't see any response about you moving the lion fish to the 20 gal tank. I've never kept a lion fish but would think that the 20 would be way to small for him since you said he was between 8 and 10 inches.