Hermit Crab in Cold Saltwater Tank?

[steveweast]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Steve - do you use NSW? I would also love to know other specs!!

I mix up ASW just like my warm tanks.

 

[steveweast]

There are some other sources for cold water stock too....
1) Many cold water species come through the warm water trade....these include catalina gobies, margarita snails, waratah anemones (and others species too), and some fish....you just have to know what you're looking for.
2) Another source is your local fish market...here you might find live shrimp, clams, mussels, oysters.....heck....my local market has small abolones.

 

[rachelrocket]

Steve (and Ophiura)
Thank you for your messages. Steve, I love the pics of your tanks! I can't believe they're all Pacific NW! I don't really want to get a sunflower star, however. From the books I've read, not only are they voracious feeders that will consume anything up to anenomes, they also eat other stars!
I've been kibbutzing with some friends at the Monterey Bay aquarium, and am feeling a little better about my plans to have a tank. I've discovered coldwaterfish, a yahoo group, which concentrates on coldwater aquariums. They have some good advice.
I am going to take the plunge, so to speak, and get a good chiller; I'm shopping around right now, trying to find the best one for my tank size, and the quietest, without sacrificing safety (I know some of the old ones actually have water in direct contact with copper tubing). Should I use 55 degrees as a benchmark as well?
I did buy live rock and sand, hoping/intending to cycle the tank (which I've been doing for ~four weeks, to great effect) prior to adding any inverts to it. I have 2 chromis in producing waste. My pet store said that they would purchase the live rock back from me at 50% of what I paid for it; would you recommend I replace the tropical live rock with local live rock and sand?
How long would you wait before populating the tank? And combination of stars and anenomes (as I know that is the cause of some controversy- the coldwaterfish people suggested I get four small stars and a cucumber, and plan to get a larger tank if any of them get too big). Also, *which* stars would you choose? I know some of them are very picky eaters. I've heard Bat Star (Asterina miniata) are a good choice, as they eat plant matter + sessile invertibrates. Ochre Star (Pisaster ochraceus) is also supposed to be a good choice- gets big, but it grows very slowly, and eat mussels.
Steve, would it be possible to continue this dialogue via email? If so, I'm smithrc at gmail.
Thank you for your friendly response!
Rachel

 

[royal gang]

THAT ANEOMNE IS WICKED AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
what kind is it? can it saurvive in warm water?

 

[cjml]

Wow!! Beautiful pictures-beautiful tank!

How do you do it so well?? This is the first I have ever heard of cold water tanks. Very interesting.... :happyfish

 

[teresaq]

very beautiful. We visited San Francisco and oregon last yr. While there we visited the aquarium where the kept local fish a stars. you could put your hands in the star tank, boy was it cold. Very beautiful though.
Steve love your tanks, and your pot (potbellied seahorse). I would love to try them, but from what i have read and seen from other people that keep them, they need a very tall tank. do you just have one or a pair.

 

[kanicky]

Wow, what a gorgeous tank!
It's so hard not to get addicted to this hobby! Seeing all of the beautiful tanks makes me wish I could be a stay-at-home "fish mom" and just create and maintain beautiful tanks! :joy:

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by RachelRocket
Steve (and Ophiura)
. My pet store said that they would purchase the live rock back from me at 50% of what I paid for it; would you recommend I replace the tropical live rock with local live rock and sand?

I hope you don't mind my response, or in keeping it here on the board. I think others can learn from the dialogue.
Buying LR in this matter is a bit unfortunate...but the LFS sees this as making good money. This is, IMO, part of the scam also of selling damselfish to cycle tanks. They will "generously" buy them back for half at best, and turn around to resell, over and over, at full price (until they die from this). Generously buying back perfectly good live rock that you've had a few weeks at half price, ugh...sorry.

I guess they have to make the money too, but still, it irks me a bit to see
The advice given above to "stop listening to your LFS that knows nothing about cold water tanks" holds VERY true.
Personally I would have started with the equipment and live rock from the location, and skipped the tropical LR. I would definitely go with local, natural, LR and sand, which is *very* different in appearance and composition to the calcareous LR and sand in the "tropical" hobby. To me, it would look totally off to not use the local stuff, and there would be little benefit in the tropical rock/sand anyway (other than in buffering, I suppose) because few of the critters would survive those temps.
The tanks shown are fantastic representatives of the natural substrate and rock in the area - quite different in look to the white stuff. I love this look!!!
There was no particular need for the chromis - anything - die off on LR, excess food, grocery store shrimp, is a perfectly good ammonia source. However, if the LR is cured, it is quite possible you will see no ammonia issues....until you remove what is basically your biological filter so be very careful at that stage. Anyway, it has been done, and unfortunately you've paid the LFS more than their fair share, IMO

I personally prefer predatory stars such as Pisaster (a gorgeous star, BTW), just because you can pretty much be sure that you can provide for them. Those that are grazers on rock (biofilms, encrusting inverts, etc) are more difficult to ensure long term survival, esp in smaller systems, IMO, just like some of their tropical relatives (Fromia and Linckia).

 

[rachelrocket]

Ophiura,
I'm beginning to see you're right. the LFS suggested that I cycle the tank using tropical fish temperatures (and damsels and chromis) and that I keep the tropical rock, as it would suffer "only a little dieoff" and generally be "good for the Pacific Tank in terms of life and the tank". Sigh.
Do you agree with Steve? Now that I have the LR and LS (30 lbs of each) should I keep it when I put in my chiller? Or should I sell it back and continue cycling the tank with local sand/limestone?
Thanks...

 

[ophiura]

My personal suggestion is to go natural.

Unfortunately in this case it does not mean Indo Pacific carbonate live rock and (probably) Florida/Caribbean carbonate live sand.
I personally think you would, in time, regret the look. Not to mention, it is just really unlikely that most of the animals in the LR/LS would survive at much lower temps.
I find the "good for th pacific tank in terms of life" comment interesting. It demonstrates a clear lack of appreciation for the unique, diverse and abundant life found in the Pacific NW, and probably also a lack of understanding of a biological filter.

 

[rachelrocket]

I'll take the LR and LS back to the fish store on Wednesday and replace them with natural limestone.
I'm ready to take the plunge and get a chiller; Steve (or others) what chiller do you have? What would you recommend for a 29 gallon tank to keep it at 55 degrees?
Thanks!

 

[steveweast]

IMO...Ophiura is dead on considering the rock. I would be skeptical whether the bacteria grown at tropical temps would be the same strain or be able to operate at 55 F. As for the rock.....any rock will do.....but, there will be significant die-off if you use tropical rock. But....why would you use a rock that looks so unnatural ?
As for cycling the tank.....I cycled my tank using ammonia chloride powder. I cycled the tank with just water in the tank and some bioballs in the overflows. The submerged bioballs provide the colonization sites for the bacteria....which is the function of the porous tropical liverock. By using the ammonia chloride powder (available online everywhere), I was able...over the course of two months....to build up a huge bacteria population which minimized the die-off from the local Puget Sound rock when added.
I also belong to the cold water reef site that you mentioned. It's a great group that can be very helpful....but, I caution you....their strengths are in local flora and fauna.....NOT aquarium keeping. I have yet to see a high quality set up over there.....maybe someone is just holding out though. Most there will not know a skimmer from a reactor......or are going to suggest how to counter a low pH (common in cold tanks)....or how to deal with accumulated NO3 and at what levels does it become toxic and to what. Alex over there has a huge knowledge of flora and fauna...and is a great help. If you're looking for stock....there are many.many divers over there who would be willing to help out. Will and Jeff (along with myself) might be able to help you out with collection. There are a great group of folks....they just lack the experience in "nuts and bolts" of setting up a high quality system.
On a side note....I went collecting last week. I picked up a few stars and a few pieces of rock with some kelp growing on them....my seahorses needed a few more hitching posts. Now....doesn't this rock look soooo much better than a dead tropical rock ?

 

[steveweast]

Now....on to sand. I use a pure calcium carbonate sand that is somewhat dark in color....which somewhat mimics a natural look. Some folks use the local beach sand.....but, it is going to be loaded with so much organics that it will create an algae problem. On my dive last week....I came across an area in the surf zome that had tumbling sand......actually....it was more like small pebbles than sand....but, it was extremely clean. I think on my next trip, I will bring back some of that to use.....it was clean and natural looking. I just didn't have enough buckets at the time. Whatever you use, though, don't use tropical crushed coral sand. It won't hurt your tank.....but, it just looks unnatural.

 

[steveweast]

Originally Posted by ROYAL GANG
THAT ANEOMNE IS WICKED AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
what kind is it? can it saurvive in warm water?
The anemone that I think you're refering to is Urticina piscivora. It is very common in Puget Sound.....and none of my cold water residents can be kept in warm water. They will begin to melt down above 65F.....in fact, when I was diving last week, the water temp was 42 F.

 

[alyssia]

Steve, I love your catalina goby. How long have you had it?

 

[steveweast]

Originally Posted by alyssia
Steve, I love your catalina goby. How long have you had it?
Two years....actually....between the two tanks, there about 20 catalina gobies.

 

[alyssia]

Wow....I have been thinking about starting up a little cool water tank for some catalinas.

 

[steveweast]

A few odds and ends....
Chiller.....you could probably do fine with a 1/6 hp chiller....and certainly do fine with a 1/4hp chiller. I use a PCI chiller and they are very quiet. Aqualogic also makes a quality unit. Remember....chillers take heat out of the water and dump it in the room that the chiller is in.....you might want to remotely locate the chiller in a different room.
Sunflower star.....I keep him because he is so voracious, He's my best clean up crew member.....he eats any leftovers. But, I can understand how he isn't for everyone and he could pose a risk to some things that you might want to keep.
When is tank ready ? the answer is when NO2 has reached zero.

 

[krazekajin]

Steve,
Thank you for being in this hobby. I have been on your website and read many of your posts. I just want you to know that I have a picture of one of your tanks on my computer just to remind me of what my tank is going to look like one day.
And Ophirua - I appreciate your advice and patience with all of us. I learn so much from this forum.
PS. I also think this thread might need to be archived just because it is so unsual to get posts on coldwater tanks.

 

[teresaq]

I would love to do a tank with pots and catalinas. but alas, my hubby said no more tanks.