hey guys, total newB here. Please help.

[neupane00]

i setup my tank of 6/15 and here were the results:
6/15:
ph:8.3
ammonia:0
nitrite:0
calcium:520
carbonate hardness: 13 dkh
phosphate:0
nitrAte:0
salinity:1.026
on this day i added freeze dried brine shrimp on a mesh bank to and threw in the tank (for ammonia source)
yesterday:
6/18:
i only tested ammonia and ammonia was 0.25
today here are the results:
6/20:
ph:8.3
ammonia:0
nitrite:0
calcium:520
carbonate hardness: 10 dkh
phosphate:0.5
nitrAte:5 to 10
salinity:1.026
so within 4 days my ammonia went up to .25 to like 0 (i didnt test it every day). My NitrAte went from 0 to between 5 and 10. phosphate went up, and KH went down. So does this mean my tank is cycled??
Some background: I used live rock from right out of 4 years old established tank. rock had some hitchhikers and creepy crawlies in there. I used ocean direct live sand.
Three questions:
1) whats goin on ? is my tank cycled?
2) phosphate went up from 0 to 0.5 (why? is it because of freeze dried brine shrimp?) what do i do to bring it down?
3) nitrate became 5-10 (I use RO/DI water and it was 0 in the beginning).

 

[deejeff442]

after the ammonia goes up it is converted to nitrites ,dont get confused between nitrites and nitrates.
check the nitrites this is what will effect the fish.
most of us will say nitrates at 5-10 is very acceptable.it is almost impossible to keep it at zero.
anything over 20 a water change will bring it down.fish are really not affected by nitrates at levely around 20 or lower.
make sure you have no nitrites .
phosphates are probably from nothing eating the food.
i run a two little fishes phosphate remover reactor as do most people .
cheap around $50 for the pump and reactor.
if there are no nitrites i would say you are good to go .

 

[neupane00]

okay. my nitrIte is 0. Only nitrate is up. Should i put in more ammonia to make sure its really getting processed? or should i just add inverts and see what happens. inverts produce ammonia right? I am really confused what to do at this point. My goal is to have some inverts cleaning crew, some fish and some corals. I wanna say the tank is cycled. But how do i make sure that ammonia and nitrItes are really getting processed?

 

[premilove]

if you want ammonia to be at 0, why would you add ammonia? dont everrr do that.. just give it some time. chances are you shouldnt have a long cycle since you have established rock and live sand. id give it another week or 2 before you can add a cuc. dead inverts produce ammonia..keep testing your water daily. if you have ANY spikes in ammonia or nitrite your tank is not cycled. what is your trate level at? you just set your tank up 5 days ago, best advice in saltwater aquariums is to TAKE IT SLOW. do not add any freeze dried stuff, its full of phosphates. go down to the grocery store and get a nice piece of shrimp. add that to your tank and test your water. if you do not have any spikes in ammonia or trites i'd say you can add a cuc.

 

[neupane00]

thanks premilove, i was asking if i should add ammonia cuz right now seems like all ammonia there was is processed and i dont wanna starve good bacteria out off ammonia. wont it take a while for cocktail shrimp to decompose and start producing ammonia ? wont good bacteria die off in the mean time? its 39 gallon tank and running at 80 degrees temp.

 

[deejeff442]

how much old lr do you have?
i would say if you have at least 30 lbs of old established rock i wouldnt bother with the shrimp.
just make sure you have good flow with a couple powerheads and let the tank go a couple weeks.
dont change out any water for a week unless you have a spike but it dont seem like you will.
i have set up tanks with cured old lr and put fish in the tank a week later the rock had plenty of good bacteria .its just like doing a huge water change and almost all the good bacteria is on the rock and in the sand so i would just give it a week or two then add the inverts and maybe 1 or 2 small fish.

 

[neupane00]

i have about 39 gallon tank. about 20 lbs of new but "pre-cured" live rock from local fish store. And another 20 lbs of live rock from 4-5 years old established tank. Okay i see. So no shrimp? Still my concern remains. If i dont put in any source of ammonia, wont the good bacteria thats there starve to death? I have 2 good powerheads there btw..
So what should i do? put in source of ammonia or just let it run for next week or two?
is phosphate of 0.5 high? will i get algae? or should i do water change? thanks again for all your help

 

[bulldog123]

If you want run a phosphate remover or a filter bag of phosphate remover. It will help. I like rowa(a little more money) and it works really well. I dont believe your bactera is going to starve that quick.
On another note make sure the fish you put in are the fish you want. It is hell removing something once its in there.

 

[neupane00]

so two questions. 1) phosphate remover, do they go in filteration chamber or do i need phosphate reactor? 2) so should i put in cocktail shrimp or no? i feel like i am getting two answers. should i just leave it alone for a week or put in shrimp>

 

[bulldog123]

Ive only been doing this for about 6 months so dont take my word as the gospel. I did not cycle my tank with anything helping. IMO I wouldnt add it. You can buy a phosphate reactor or add a bag of phosphate remover. Just make sure you read the direction. I like the reactor because you can run different media.

 

[deejeff442]

if you had a trace of ammonia that was a cycle.
moving lr and it hitting air will cause die off.
any sponges hitting air will die that being organic will start your cycle.
40 lbs of rock is great for that cube.
personally i would just let the system go a week and add the cuc.
shrimp dont need an old tank to survive just make sure you acclimate them to the salinity.they are very sensitive to it.
i would even put a hardy fish in .like said by bulldog one you plan to keep.
thats a good amount of cured rock has should have plenty of good bacteria on it to sustain a bioload.
think of this as moving from one home to another and moving the tank.
i moved 4 months ago .i did change to a bigger tank but same idea.
put new sand in,filled with premixed water 20% from the old tank for the fish to feel more like they were in the same water.
then just moved the rock in one trip and the fish anhour later.
i have some delicate fish and had not one problem.
it is good to be worried and not just dump what ever you want in.
but you seem to have a good set up .and did some homework.
you should start doing a wish list for the tank and in a week put one of the fish in then in a couple more weeks add a couple more.
just keep up on tests and waterchanges and thats it.
the biggest problems i have learned was not making sure you buy a healthy fish or not qt .overstocking,overfeeding,too much time with the lights on.
i am a big believer in lr .
my 225 system has a 120 sump with almost 350 lbs of lr,big skimmer ,phosphate reactor and carbon reactor .thats it
i have some big fish and feed well.my water is always perfect even if i let it go for a month.
you have pleny of rock and with a skimmer the tank should thrive.

 

[king_neptune]

Originally Posted by neupane00
http:///forum/post/3068215
so two questions. 1) phosphate remover, do they go in filteration chamber or do i need phosphate reactor? 2) so should i put in cocktail shrimp or no? i feel like i am getting two answers. should i just leave it alone for a week or put in shrimp>
You can do either way.
as in your other post, you got an answer there.
as for shrimp. 1 was enough. its possible your spike peaked hard, but you missed it because you were testing every other day. if your params are balancing out, then LR is doing its job.

 

[neupane00]

okay i think i will wait a week and add hardy fish and some cleanup crew... now the question is. Do i need to qt the fish?? i have a qt tank. But since my tank will be justtt cycled, does it make sense for me to use qt tank? ( i will have some coc too.. since they cant stand copper , should i qt anyways to see if fish comes down with ick)? if i do setup qt will it be ok if i just add some water from my main display tank and use throw in a filter media? since its a new tank dunno if filter media will have enough bacteria to sustain the bioload in qt tank.

 

[king_neptune]

Originally Posted by neupane00
http:///forum/post/3068320
okay i think i will wait a week and add hardy fish and some cleanup crew... now the question is. Do i need to qt the fish?? i have a qt tank. But since my tank will be justtt cycled, does it make sense for me to use qt tank? ( i will have some coc too.. since they cant stand copper , should i qt anyways to see if fish comes down with ick)? if i do setup qt will it be ok if i just add some water from my main display tank and use throw in a filter media? since its a new tank dunno if filter media will have enough bacteria to sustain the bioload in qt tank.
add the CuC first. let them do thier thing for a few weeks. 4-6 would be ideal. then add your first fish. you wont need to QT the first fish, if it develops disease...it wont be infecting other fish. as for "Hardy", im not in agreement there. WIthin 4-6 weeks of your CuC you will have a better knowledge of your water by then. you will know that it is stabalized or not.
For a first fish, I would recommend you getting a maintenance class fish, a goby of some kind, or even a blenny. Something that will do productive work on your tank. They go hand in hand with CuC, you build the foundations of your system...then add the final touches.

 

[deejeff442]

with all the seasoned rock you have there is no reason you have to wait 4-6 weeks to add a fish.
wait for cuc to do thier thing what thing are they going to do in 4-6 weeks that wont happen when you put them in there right away?
if you didnt have seasoned rock i would go about it differently but you do.
why would you need a cuc and start with a fish to help the cuc when there is nothing to clean up?

 

[neupane00]

thats my question too. its a new tank. no algae. But water param are kinda stable. If i get COC, what are they gonna feed on? there is nothing. should i get it anyways. also i heard somewhere that if there is nothing to eat hermit crab start killing each other and kill snails??

 

[deejeff442]

snails will die off first then the hermits will kill each other for food and thier shells.
if you get crabs get some slightly bigger shells for them to go into or they will fight a bigger one for a new home.
a new tank will almost always go through an algea bloom.
trick is to keep it in check.
start out with the lights on for 4-8 hrs a day for a month then increase an hour every couple weeks untill you get to where you want them .i go 12 hrs compacts and 6 hrs mh.
i dont have a cuc in my fowlr but keep snails ,crabs and shrimp in my 90 reef.
trick is to not over do the cuc.
40 lbs of rock maybe 6-8 snails and 6-8 crabs.
you can put some frozen fish food in for the cuc if you like but only a little.
there is no reason to put a cuc before fish.
actually cuc is more impacted by bad water than fish.
nitrates dont bother fish at lower levels and your tank being young will have nitrates.