High nitrates even after waterchanges. Advice?

[luvmynano]

Hi Everyone! Long time reader, first time poster. The tank is about 4 months old, no problems til this. The nitrate is high, (using a test kit) around 30ppm. I cannot get the nitrate down, and keep it down. I want to get more mushrooms, so I really need to get the tank right before I get any more. In the past 2 weeks, I have done 2 small, and one large 5 gallon waterchanges. (using "real ocean water", the kind in a box) I had 3 shaving brush plants, I ditched them, thinking they were the problem, changed the water, and no change in nitrate yet. I have tried all the basic stuff, cleaning the filter, regular waterchanges, I feed my damsel very little, every other day, Am I overfeeding? Water parameters: Nitrate 30ppm, Nitrite and ammonia, are 0 PH 8.2
Heres my setup-
10gal, I'm using 2, 20gal HOB filters, (wierd? bad?

please advise! )
28w 50/50 pc light, no skimmer
I have one yellowtail damsel, 1 fire shrimp, 1 emerald crab, 4 Turbo snails, 3 Nass snails, 5 hermits (3 red, 2 blue). 2 small red mushrooms. Overstocked? I would really appreciate any advice, tips, and criticizim! Thanks so much!

 

[ophiura]

Hi, welcome to the boards!
The shaving brush plants were definitely not the problem.
What brand of test kits do you use and have you double checked your reading at an LFS?
Do a test on both your top off water and whatever water you use for water changes.
YOu are not overstocked...but I would not recommend any more fish.
Did this suddenly happen or have you always had high nitrates?
BTW, this is not "critically" high and I would not do anything drastic at this point.

 

[luvmynano]

Thanks for the quick response! My kit is an API master kit, and I did double check it at LFS. The water I use for top off is clean, no nitrate there. I have not checked this particular box of water, but I have checked a few, good so far. This has happened gradually, over 3 weeks, i'd say. I just don't want it to get worse...I know things can go bad quick in a small tank!

 

[locoyo386]

Hi there,
Actually I would imagine that the shaving brush plans would help with the nitrates and phosphates. It is a type of macroalgae. For the filtration, not sure about in a reef tank but I have 1-150 gallon HOB (my tanks are not reefs). As far as overstocked, I think you might be able to add another fihs. The nitrates would have to be kept down for a reef. Also it might be difficult to add another fish with the yellow tail damsel in there already.

 

[ophiura]

Can you account for all of the livestock? If you go back 3-4 weeks, did you do anything? Add anything? Stir the sand or move any rocks?
You rinse any sponges or such that are in the filter?

 

[luvmynano]

Originally Posted by locoyo386
http:///forum/post/3011716
Hi there,
Actually I would imagine that the shaving brush plans would help with the nitrates and phosphates. It is a type of macroalgae. For the filtration, not sure about in a reef tank but I have 1-150 gallon HOB (my tanks are not reefs). As far as overstocked, I think you might be able to add another fihs. The nitrates would have to be kept down for a reef. Also it might be difficult to add another fish with the yellow tail damsel in there already.
Hi! Yes, I thought the brushes would help, but my hermits were eating them, they got kinda droopy, and I thought they may be decaying, causing the nitrate. I agree about adding a fish with the damsel, he is a bully! I will definitly trade him before I try to get another fish. Thanks for the advise!

 

[luvmynano]

Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3011721
Can you account for all of the livestock? If you go back 3-4 weeks, did you do anything? Add anything? Stir the sand or move any rocks?
You rinse any sponges or such that are in the filter?
All livestock is accounted for. I can't recall doing anything out of the ordinary except, I re-arranged some rockwork about 2 weeks ago...and some sand did get stirred when I did that. I did rinse the sponge in the filters (aquaclear 20s) and also rinsed the carbon bags, but not the ceramic bio-ball things. Is it bad to rinse them between changing them?

 

[ophiura]

In the filters, the sponges can be rinsed frequently - and probably should be. They serve as mechanical filters to trap debris, and it rots there.
The bio ball things should not be rinsed in tap water...but each time you do a water change, it is a good plan to swish these around to dislodge anything that gets stuck in there. The bio ball things will not be changed, though it is arguable whether you need them long term if you have live rock.
It is possible this was just a perturbation and it will just take a series of water changes to get on top of it.

 

[luvmynano]

Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3011737
In the filters, the sponges can be rinsed frequently - and probably should be. They serve as mechanical filters to trap debris, and it rots there.
The bio ball things should not be rinsed in tap water...but each time you do a water change, it is a good plan to swish these around to dislodge anything that gets stuck in there. The bio ball things will not be changed, though it is arguable whether you need them long term if you have live rock.
It is possible this was just a perturbation and it will just take a series of water changes to get on top of it.
Thanks! I was wondering if rinsing would help or hurt. Is there such a thing as too much biological filtration? Maybe the bio balls could be the source of the nitrate? I was thinking that since I have 40 gallons worth of bio balls on a 10 gallon tank. Ruling out all possibilities!

 

[ophiura]

No, there is not too much biological filtration...the biological filter, meaning the bacteria that is growing on surfaces that consumes ammonia, nitrite, etc, reaches population densities based on available ammonia. If you add more, but don't have more "load", then the bacteria will simply die off. COnversely, if you add more "bioload" then the bacteria will increase.
It is arguable if you can have too much "substrate" for biological filtration...meaning if you have loads of LR, and bioballs, etc...
The bioballs are in a sense the source of nitrate as they host bacteria. But they are not making nitrate out of nothing. If you have a problem..make it a nitrate problem, not an ammonia problem! If you have high nitrates, you have something that is feeding it. You must find the source of that, and it is not the bioballs. If you have a bunch of food trapped and rotting in there, that is a problem. But that is a maintenance issue, not anything else.
If you have so many bioballs in there that yoiu can't properly clean the filters, you may have a problem. If they are otherwise clean, then it is not likely to be a problem but it may also not be doing anything. I don't think you need loads of biomedia if you have LR and overall a low bioload. However, I would suggest you consider modding one of your hang on filters to be a a refugium, so that you can boost your export of nitrate.
You may also wish to consider some sort of small skimmer. What is your typical water change schedule?

 

[luvmynano]

Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3011765
No, there is not too much biological filtration...the biological filter, meaning the bacteria that is growing on surfaces that consumes ammonia, nitrite, etc, reaches population densities based on available ammonia. If you add more, but don't have more "load", then the bacteria will simply die off. COnversely, if you add more "bioload" then the bacteria will increase.
It is arguable if you can have too much "substrate" for biological filtration...meaning if you have loads of LR, and bioballs, etc...
The bioballs are in a sense the source of nitrate as they host bacteria. But they are not making nitrate out of nothing. If you have a problem..make it a nitrate problem, not an ammonia problem! If you have high nitrates, you have something that is feeding it. You must find the source of that, and it is not the bioballs. If you have a bunch of food trapped and rotting in there, that is a problem. But that is a maintenance issue, not anything else.
If you have so many bioballs in there that yoiu can't properly clean the filters, you may have a problem. If they are otherwise clean, then it is not likely to be a problem but it may also not be doing anything. I don't think you need loads of biomedia if you have LR and overall a low bioload. However, I would suggest you consider modding one of your hang on filters to be a a refugium, so that you can boost your export of nitrate.
You may also wish to consider some sort of small skimmer. What is your typical water change schedule?
I was thinking of converting one of the filters. I will try it. It just makes sense. I don't use carbon in one of them anyway, just the filter floss and bio balls. I do a waterchange weekly, 2 gallons. Not enough? Should I do another big one to try and lower the nitrate further?

 

[florida joe]

Your problem is a lack of anaerobic bacteria protein skimming and nitrate assimilation via higher forms of algae. Your nitrification bacteria is doing its job it is just overwhelming your di nitrification. Cut down on your organic breakdown to give your anaerobic bacteria a chance to catch up and add some nitrate export

 

[luvmynano]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3011797
Your problem is a lack of anaerobic bacteria protein skimming and nitrate assimilation via higher forms of algae. Your nitrification bacteria is doing its job it is just overwhelming your di nitrification. Cut down on your organic breakdown to give your anaerobic bacteria a chance to catch up and add some nitrate export
Hi! Thanks for the info! What algae do you suggest I use? I guess I ditched the shaving brush too soon.

 

[florida joe]

I personally like caulerpa (in a refuge) if one has done their homework. For the newer hobbyist go with Cheato

 

[luvmynano]

Thanks everyone for your time and help! It is greatly appreciated!