high phosphates issue

cmc3502

Member
i have a tank that has rocks in it that I recently bleached. Now the phosphates are high and I'm getting the brown diatoms (new tank all over again I guess). My question is.. are the phosphates a result of the bleach possibly still leaching out? and are the high phosphates to blame for me not being able to keep snails alive for more than a day??? I've got 3 differet types of medias to pull out the phosphates, but all remains high... all other parameters are in check and I'm thinking alot water changes might be the answer...
thanks
 

kellenr

Member
Originally Posted by cmc3502
http:///forum/post/2674842
i have a tank that has rocks in it that I recently bleached. Now the phosphates are high and I'm getting the brown diatoms (new tank all over again I guess). My question is.. are the phosphates a result of the bleach possibly still leaching out? and are the high phosphates to blame for me not being able to keep snails alive for more than a day??? I've got 3 differet types of medias to pull out the phosphates, but all remains high... all other parameters are in check and I'm thinking alot water changes might be the answer...
thanks
I've never met anyone or wanted to try 'bleaching rocks' myself. It just seems pretty sketchy no matter what anyone tells me otherwise. Plus those rocks are completely dead now and will take a while to build up any good bacteria. Maybe something 'could' be being released into the water.
Did you fill this tank up with tap water? I'd ease up on doing too many water changes too quickly.
You say all 'your other params are in check'? What are they? ...as in Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, Alkalinity, Calcium & Phosphate.
Also what is your Specific Gravity of the tank? Snails dying in 3 days isn't a good sign, how did you acclimate them? Could be your SG is very low, could be a lot of things actually.
Please update with your params.
 

spanko

Active Member
When you say bleached, do you mean chemically or just set them out to dry like in the sun? I am not sure but I don't think you will get phosphate from chemical bleach. Tap water to fill the tank?
 

fishfreak1242

Active Member
Check the parameters of your water source that you use. If phosphates are high in that, then you should change sources.
 

snaredrum

Member
Bleach = Chlorine. With the live rock I have, I don't see any possible way to remove all the bleach from it to be able to put it back into the tank. One question through. What was the problem to make you bleach it?
 

cmc3502

Member
will this WAS an aggressive tank and copper was used (which will start a whole other discussion here).. but the rock was stained brown and so it was bleached. Basically over time and with the use of filtration, I have got the copper out and I continue to use filteration to catch any leaking out copper. I think all I have here is 'new tank' diatoms and i think it will go away on its own.
Do new tank diatoms = phosphates???
Parameters are
temp. - 79.7
phosphate - 3.5 (FIXING)
ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 0
PH - < 7.4 (FIXING)
Copper - 0
Calcium - 600+ (this test is always high and has been on 2 other tanks of mine, might be wrong. hard to tell when it goes 'blue')
will have a LFS test my salinity with a better device like the refractometer. And the tank was filled with tab to start, now R/O, but tested the city water and phosphates are pretty much nothing.
 

kellenr

Member
Originally Posted by cmc3502
http:///forum/post/2677188
will this WAS an aggressive tank and copper was used (which will start a whole other discussion here).. but the rock was stained brown and so it was bleached. Basically over time and with the use of filtration, I have got the copper out and I continue to use filteration to catch any leaking out copper. I think all I have here is 'new tank' diatoms and i think it will go away on its own.
Do new tank diatoms = phosphates???
Parameters are
temp. - 79.7
phosphate - 3.5 (FIXING)
ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 0
PH - < 7.4 (FIXING)
Copper - 0
Calcium - 600+ (this test is always high and has been on 2 other tanks of mine, might be wrong. hard to tell when it goes 'blue')
will have a LFS test my salinity with a better device like the refractometer. And the tank was filled with tab to start, now R/O, but tested the city water and phosphates are pretty much nothing.
Ok, here's whats going on:
1. I can't speak about the LR because I don't have any experience with bleaching LR, doesn't sound too great though. I would of maybe purchased new LR because now all you have essentially is dead base rock, which is pretty cheap if you wanted to use all new rock.
2. If copper is leaking into the water, the filter isn't gonna get it out, it's gonna mostly stay in the water column.
3. If you filled your tank with tap water then yes, you're probably going to get some really bad diatoms. Phosphates and Silicates go hand in hand, and Silicates is what causes the diatoms, it is their 'food source'. I believe all tap water has phosphates in it (could be wrong), but I know it has silica in it. Silica (glass dust) is added into tap water to prevent pipe corrosion, and causes diatom outbreaks in tanks. You can get rid of silica by getting a phosphate remover, or you can just ride it out, the diatoms will be gone once the silicates are used up. When you use tap water though this could take some time. You also want to be sure you're not unintentionally adding phosphates/silicates from something else like your salt or other water treatments. Phosphate/silicates = diatoms.
You also need to test your dKH (Alkalinity), I'm sure it's very low. Alkalinity is a measure of the water’s capacity to neutralize an acid, thereby keeping the pH at a fairly constant level. A low dKH will not allow you to maintain a stable pH and will cause your pH to fall. It will also affect your Calcium. Your calcium is VERY high, too high. It is unusable at this level and isn't available for use in the water column. This high calcium along with low pH is another tell-tale sign that your dKH is very low. When the Calcium either becomes too high or too low, relative to the dKH, it crystallizes and forms calcium carbonate which is usually noticeable by either cloudy water or a fine layer of white powder that settles on your rocks. To get all these levels to balance out you need to start with only 1 thing. You need to add a buffer to your water. I'm guessing you don't use any type of buffer and if you tested your dKH it would be low. You can use whatever buffer you'd like and just add it as directed on the product. I personally prefer "Kent Marine SuperBuffer dKH", it'll probably cost you <$8 depending on the size you get.
Please update me as I'm pretty darn sure I may be guessing spot on here. Good luck!
 

cmc3502

Member
thanks... I do actually test for Alkalinity and my test bottle just ran out last week.. But usually (maybe not in this case) i've notice that my alk. can be 8-10 and still my calcium is high..I know that the PH, ALK, and Calcium all balance off each other and thats why that has never made cents. I just dont like the way the test for calcium works...add drops till it turns blue...? its not as certain as the other test colors. I do also use buffer although I dont think I have in this tank before...
so buffering, testing salinity at store and water changes to start clearing sillicates??
 

kellenr

Member
Originally Posted by cmc3502
http:///forum/post/2677377
thanks... I do actually test for Alkalinity and my test bottle just ran out last week.. But usually (maybe not in this case) i've notice that my alk. can be 8-10 and still my calcium is high..I know that the PH, ALK, and Calcium all balance off each other and thats why that has never made cents. I just dont like the way the test for calcium works...add drops till it turns blue...? its not as certain as the other test colors. I do also use buffer although I dont think I have in this tank before...
so buffering, testing salinity at store and water changes to start clearing sillicates??
Yeah usually while your 'counting drops' for the calcium the tube will turn pink then you'll see it turn blue suddenly when you hit it. Keep in mind that you need to shake the tube after every drop in order to see the 'blue' right away. I usually add drops until I get to where I think the lowest calcium level could be then I start adding 1 or 2 at a time, shaking the tube in between.
Buffering will help your pH & Calcium stabilize but wont remove silicates. Water changes using RO/DI water will help dilute the silicate population but you don't want to over do it with the WC's. After some time the silicates will be 'used up' by the diatoms and the diatoms will start to go away. You can always use a phosphate remover such as 'phosphate sponge' or 'phosban' to remove phosphates & silicates, this will speed up the process.
 

cmc3502

Member
will do. I have the buffer that I'll add tonight and retest. I actually have a phosphate pad, chem-pure and fluval in there now....
 

colbalt60

Member
what i had to do to bring my phos. down was adding a fuge. the algae (cheato) i added ate up the phos. and now it is undetectable. increase the flow so you dont have any arera that can build up and take your time. hope this helps.
 

cmc3502

Member
i have a sump and I will add cheto and a light under there tonight. also... i can add a powerhead that I have laying around in my sump if that would help with the movement. although I have 2 skimmers in there, the intake and the outake pumps creating flow already... the DT has 2 korlina pumps
 
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