how do I lower my nitrates?

[scary]

I have a 28 gall hex 35 pnds lr
2 " live sand
Temp 78
ph - 8.1
nitrites -0
ammonia .05
nitrates 15
calcium 300 ( I know its low , I don't know how to raise it, people say don't try you could kill the tank)
tank has been up since January 2005
1 cleaner shrimp
2 percula clowns
1 emerald crab
1 small diamond gobie
5 hermit crabs
many tiny snails
Why can I never get my nitrates to zero? I do water changes once a week and they get lower but never to zero. Is zero my goal? I was told it is . Also is it at .15 a bad thing or can I live with this (or I should say can my fish & verts live with this?)
Please give me some guidance - this hobbie is all consuming!!

 

[bostonpro]

I don't think nitrates being at 15 is a bad thing. But what I would be worried about is the ammonia. That should be at 0.

 

[ophiura]

I assume that your nitrates are "15" and not .15. This is not all that bad. Don't go crazy, IMO, trying to get to 0 because in many cases it will not happen.
Generally, people who have 0 nitrates have several things going on:
A deep sand bed
Lots of live rock
macroalgae growth in a refugium (algae uses nitrates)
low bioload
frequent water changes with RO water.
They may have all or some of these things.
How often do you feed the tank?
As for calcium, you need to get an alkalinity reading as well before doing anything. Alkalinity, calcium and pH go hand in hand. Once we have all those readings (and potentially magnesium at some point), we can work on ways to bump your calcium up. It may be as simple as using a two part calcium/alkalinity additive.

 

[scary]

You know, I think it probably is at zero, I just error on the high side since the color is hard for me to compare for some reason.
So you think .15 isn't bad for nitrates. Is it suppose to be at zero and what causes them to go high?
Thanks - there's so much too learn!!

 

[bigarn]

IMO that's not a bad nitrate reading. In my experience some people can get nitrates to 0 and some can't. In your case, as long as everything is healthy I wouldn't worry. Just my opinion.

 

[ophiura]

Nitrates build up in a tank because the bacteria that consume it only live in anaerobic areas (a deep sand bed, inside live rock). They build up because they have few places to go. They can be used by algae (nuissance or macros), taken out by water changes, or used by bacteria in the cases mentioned. But in most cases, they build up to some extent and getting them 0 is not always possible. But nitrates are not as much of a problems, in terms of toxicity, as ammonia and nitrite. Keep them under 20, IMO...but you may go nuts trying to get them to 0 and make the hobby very unpleasant.
Nitrates fundamentally come from the food you put into the tank...

 

[scary]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "feed the tank" Do you mean feed my fish and stuff ?or does this mean something else? I'm just learning the lingo in this saltwater world.
I feed the fish once a day - live brine
anything else - I don't do - what should I do? Every lfs have told me different opinions on many things and I think most just try to sell you stuff you don't really need.
I just want to know what I REALLY need.
Also was told that with a tank so small , that readings can flex alot and a large tank would not be so touchy.
Thank you ( yes I did mean 15 not .15) Should I buy an alkaline testing kit to go along with my calcium kit?
Thank you

 

[ophiura]

Yes, you should get a test kit for, or have alkalinity tested. It goes hand in hand with calcium and pH.
Yes, a larger tank tends to be more stable, as does, IMO, a rectangular tank over a hex tank. Hex tanks can pose circulation issues, as well as just getting things to hang on them. Not a lot of room.
Live brine is a nice treat- but a poor long term diet. Nutritionally poor (unless soaked in vitamins), and can be unecessarily messy. I would consider switching to other types of food - even trying pellets, flake - but also some frozen omnivore diets. The food that goes in is ultimately what becomes nitrates.

 

[andretti]

All of your readings should be at 0, especially nitrates and ammonia. You have got one of several things going on. The first thing that comes to mind is that you do not have enough bacteria to support your bioload. You should have a sand bed of 3-4" and about 1.5 lbs of live rock per gallon of water. The second thing is that you are feeding your fish too much; you should only feed your fish once per day. The third thing is your water quality. Are you using R/O D/I water? And do you have a good protein skimmer?Some people say that fish can handle nitrates up to .40, and that's insane! Granted fish handle them better than corals and inverts, but they shouls still be at 0. Poor water quality and changes in water will cause fish to stress, and when they stress, they get diseases such as ick, popeye, fin and tail rot, marine velvet, etc. I would do a 20% water change W/R/O, add this stuff called "Prime plus." It is a water condtioner that makes ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, non toxic. However it does not get rid of them, it just makes them non toxic. I would also add more L/R at the rate of 4-6lbs per week, which is your basic medium-sized piece of L/R. You don't want to add too much at one time because you will get ammonia spikes and/or mini-cycles. Hope this helps. Good luck.

This is a learning process and we have all needed :help: at one time or another.

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by Andretti
All of your readings should be at 0, especially nitrates and ammonia.
Ammonia and nitrites, yes, should be at 0, but if you have a lot of experience with tanks, you will know that a nitrate reading of 0 is not all that easy to get to, nor is it all that necessary. 15 ppm is OK. Can it be lowered? Sure. Should it go higher? No, you don't want it to creep higher because it is more trouble to lower it for sure. Do you need to have a 3-4" sand bed? No, PLENTY of people successfully run tanks with no sand at all (bare bottom tanks). I am not sure how much help a deep sand bed would be in a hex tank anyway.
There are MANY successful ways to run a saltwater tank, and many opinions as well. But there is a way to make the hobby miserable for many, and that is to insist on 0 nitrates.
I have worked with many systems with nitrates well over 40, near 200ppm, with no apparent ill affects on fish. If you work with large fish only systems, where the "deep sand bed" and refugium concept doesn't work, you will have higher nitrate levels. Many fish only systems run quite well with higher nitrate levels. Coral systems do not.
So far as I could tell he IS feeding once per day, just not the best type of food. As a rough idea, a fishes stomach is about the size of its eye, and so, though they will keep eating, they do not need it. Don't overfeed.
I do not recommend using ANY additive that neutralizes ammonia or nitrite as a healthy tank shouldn't have any at all. And many of these additives interfere with the testing of things like ammonia. So if you have ammonia, two things to look into first are if you tested water after feeding, and if your test kit is right. I would take water to the LFS to have it double checked.
I have no problems with the addition of LR, but in a hex tank, there may not be suitable room for that amount of LR. There are lots of opinions on how much LR to have. If the ammonia and nitrite is at 0, you have enough of a biological filter to sustain your bioload. You will have to use water changes as a primary method for removing nitrate unless you can add a refugium somehow.
What sort of filtration is on this tank? Can you fit a skimmer on it at all, or do you have one already?

 

[fishamajig]

I would say I have a pretty healthy tank, all of the critters and corals seem to be doing great and I have never gotten my trates down below 10 ppm. Just water changes once a week, and not too much overfeeding.

 

[ctgretzky9]

Hello fellow hex tank owner!
Adding LR is difficult, and I myself would love to add more, but there isnt room always for this. Im in thsi dilemna now becasue the tank is so high (60 hex) and stacking rocks any higher than I have now makes me cringe!
Do not add any chemicals to your tank to eliminate nitrates etc, it is a quick fix to an underlying problem, and I have read about a new cycle beginning because of this.
Having a sand bed does not eliminate nitrates, it helps, but doesnt always work. There is a new debate surfacing on other boards about this subject, and some problems with sand bed crashes.
Nitrates are not that bad of a thing. My trates are always around 10, have peaked at 15 from time to time, and has never ever reached 0, and probably never will. Nor do I try and accomplish this. It isnt nessecary, and will be frustrating.
Water changes help, but if you do the math, water changes will never get it to 0 unless you change all of the water. This is also assuming you wont be adding anything to the water, which the first feeding will add nitrates right back.
What is your filtration type? skimmer, hang on, canister, fuge? This wil be important if you use mechanical filtration like a canister or hang on wet/dry, because these types ar efamous for "holding" trates ( this is what I have)
In all of my rambling, if you take anything, dont focus too much on your trates until they get at 15 or higher. For now, Ophiura gave you some great advice...get some variety of food, watch how much you feed, and get on a regular water change cycle.
HTH

 

[queenangel920]

Nitrates of 15 are good IMO. For corals, under 20 is your goal. For fish, your nitrates can go up to 40 safely(by the books) but in my experience, I've had my nitrates up to 80-100 FOR YEARS without any ill effects on my fish (including a regal tang and a queen angel) and yes, an anemone! :yes: I'm currently converting my tank back into a reef tank, therefore have been doing water changes every 2 weeks. My nitrates have lowered to 20-30 and with that, the corals that I do have (xenia, hammer coral, green star polyps and mushrooms) are doing wonderful! I think nitrates aren't as bad as some make them out to be and I figured that out first hand. Trying to get them down to 0 wouldn't even be a goal of mine. Just make sure you are doing water changes and things remain healthy in your tank. :happyfish

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by QueenAngel920
I think nitrates aren't as bad as some make them out to be and I figured that out first hand.
Shhhh! Between you and me :yes:
There is definitely a limit with corals...you'll see changes in them, but I am not sure it is so much an exact level of Xppm nitrates as it is in combination with other factors in the tank.