how long to cycle?

outlaw69

New Member
new 70 gal set up w about 80 lb of LR
fluval 305
essopps protien skimmer
korilia 4 power head
about 40 lb of LR came from my 2 1/2 year old tank
used nutra fin cycle
have brown diatom growing
4 chromis and 10 hermit crabs
check water every day every thing is good all zero and good ph
 

outlaw69

New Member
two weeks ago
I have read that you can cycle with or with out fish?
the chromis have been in there for 1 1/2 weeks they are swimming and eating fine and the crabs have been in ther for 3 days I read that fish would help speed the process. I used fish on my first two tanks and still have one from 2 1/2 years ago
 

crypt keeper

Active Member
You read wrong. You dont need to use fish at all. IMo its cruel to the fish. Ammonia can burn lungs and cause issues and trites will flat out kill a fish.
Using fish doesnt do anything more than placing a piece of raw shrimp in the tank and allowing it to break down.
You want to check is your ammonia then trites. Keep the PH up. Once the ammonia and trites are at 0 and the ph is stable you can slowlt add fish. One every 3 weeks or so.
 

ophiura

Active Member
How long has this been set up?
With 40 lbs of established LR, it is entirely possible you will not see a cycle at all. I am assuming you have been feeding the fish? If you have been doing this a couple of weeks and have seen no ammonia, then I suspect you aren't going to.
For the other 40lbs of LR...did it smell when you first got it? did you get it at an LFS?
 

outlaw69

New Member
I have been feeding the fish and I did buy the LR from a LFS with fish swimming in with it
a store that I have been using for several years they have always been good and if there is any question about water quality or any other question they want to test your water and will not sell you livestock if they think there is a problem they also care for personal tanks
I did not purchase the fish I have in the tank from that store but they seem to be doing fine. I do keep a close eye on my water
 

ophiura

Active Member
I guess in order to answer your original question, we need to know how long it has been set up and running?
 

outlaw69

New Member
2 weeks the fish have been in the tank 1.5 weeks and the crabs 3 days the tank has diatom algea growing and has been since the 3rd or 4th day. I never did see any spikes but something has to be happening or the algea would not be growing right? I did not ck water the first 2 days could it have happened then? I have a fresh test kit so it should be good and I am using test strips.
 

ophiura

Active Member
You did not "see" a spike for several reasons.
the first is that you did not exceed the capacity of the biological filter. This is the bacteria on your LR. In normal cycling situations, there is no biological filter, and it must grow. The ammonia is food for that bacteria, but there is a lag time for it to grow, which results in the first "spike" of ammonia. This happens if you have uncured LR (die off produces ammonia), if you overfeed the tank or use shrimp (the rotting produces ammonia) or if you put fish in (the food plus waste produces ammonia).
If you have cured LR, then you can get away with livestock and the bacterial capacity is sufficient to carry the bioload. this is what probably happened in your case.
Nitrite spikes follow after the ammonia spike as another type of bacteria grows in...again, you had this. I would expect to see some degree of nitrate. However, algae often can use this. Our test kits are also not particularly accurate (what kind do you use?). Nitrate test kits are usually a bit finicky and so it is possible you are not registering nitrate due to a test kit issue, or that it is just too low and being used by the algae.
Regardless of the strong opinions on it, there are many ways to successfully cycle a tank. I am not a fan of damsel cycling, but it does work. However, you did not do a damselfish cycling, IMO.
Another form of cycling a tank is effectively using an established biomedia and very slowly increasing the bioload. You should be aware that you could at some point overwhelm your biofilter in the early stages because you probably did not "push" the tank. A whole rotting shrimp puts a lot of ammonia in the system, effectively providing the system with a "worst case scenario." Old school damsel cycling used 1 damsel per 5 gallons, and they were fed heavily. Dead fish were left in the tank. This is a harsh, extremely nasty soup but it is nonethless a very hard cycle to the tank.
I suspect you are relatively safe but I would not go crazy adding fish quickly. I generally prefer a form of "hard cycle" but that is me. There is the possibility that for some reason you have just not measured this yet, and you are on the edge of it.
The algae could also be a circulation issue in some cases so ensure that is addressed if need be. I would feel better seeing some nitrate, as mentioned. I would suggest in a week or two, a more robust clean up crew would be the way to go. Have you done a water change?
 

outlaw69

New Member
I have not changed any water although I have considered swapping water from my established tank which all test good with some water from the new tank is this a bad idea? should I take a shrimp out of the freezer and drop in the tank?
 

ophiura

Active Member
there is no point whatsoever in taking water from your other tank. This is only moving "dirty" water into the tank, it does nothing to either promote, enhance or complete a cycle.
As for the second question...IMO, no, because you've effectively "made a decision" with having fish in there. I would not try and overwhelm the biolgical filter now that the decision has been made. Now it is a matter of being slow and patient. If you are feeding them daily, this is about as far as I personally would go.
 

bigjakec

Member
Originally Posted by crypt keeper
http:///forum/post/3101350
You read wrong. You dont need to use fish at all. IMo its cruel to the fish.
There ARE books as well as forums out there that say you can cycle with fish. True you don't need to, a raw shimp with do the same thing. But don't blast the guy and say he read wrong. Thinking it is cruel to use live fish is your opinion. I personally wouldn't do it just because it is not needed, but choose you words to other keepers carefully. Makes no sence to me to blast someone for what he read. He may just go back to that source for future advise. Personally I'd rather see him stay here and coach him in a more practical method. Hear what I'm saying
 
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