backslashdot
New Member
A quick and easy one...
How many damsels should I use to cycle my 55g tank?
How many damsels should I use to cycle my 55g tank?
How many damsels to cycle 55g
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maroonclownfan
Member
NONE...0.....zilch.....nada.
Please use LR/LS or the Dead Cocktail shrimp method. Just as effective and much more humane.
Don't learn the hard way like most of the rest of us have. Cycling with live fish is hard on the fish.
Thank you.........MCF
Please use LR/LS or the Dead Cocktail shrimp method. Just as effective and much more humane.
Don't learn the hard way like most of the rest of us have. Cycling with live fish is hard on the fish.
Thank you.........MCF
E
elan
Guest
yep.. i used damNsels to cycle my tank.........
1) half of them died
2) the ones that lived were the ugliest and meanest
3) they hasseld anything else in the tank
4) after a few hours of trying to catch them, i felt defeated.. by a Fu~~ing damNsel!
5) i finnaly had to take all of my rock out of the tank to catch them
6) i took them back to the fish store and got 6 bucks credit... i originally bough 40 dollars worth.
7) i am considered a mean aquariumist on this site because i let fish die....
1) half of them died
2) the ones that lived were the ugliest and meanest
3) they hasseld anything else in the tank
4) after a few hours of trying to catch them, i felt defeated.. by a Fu~~ing damNsel!
5) i finnaly had to take all of my rock out of the tank to catch them
6) i took them back to the fish store and got 6 bucks credit... i originally bough 40 dollars worth.
7) i am considered a mean aquariumist on this site because i let fish die....
E
elan
Guest
never tried mollies, but, if you are planning on getting live rock, you will eventually get a few corals... trust me..this is no different than doing drugs... the soft stuff will lead the the hard stuff...
its always best to leave things alone in this hobby... i want to move some rocks around, but am refraining from it because....i dont want to touch anything in my tank.. its all doing great, and i want to keep it that way... whenever i make a significant change, it causes comotion in my tank stability, and therefore i am biting my nails till things go back to normal...
So... only put in fish you want to leave in your tank for good... keep in mind, fish get big over the months and years...so plan accordingly.. and only put in fish that you are completely happy with..... with me, i want to get rid of my blue green chromis.., they are just too aggressive for me/mytank...
its always best to leave things alone in this hobby... i want to move some rocks around, but am refraining from it because....i dont want to touch anything in my tank.. its all doing great, and i want to keep it that way... whenever i make a significant change, it causes comotion in my tank stability, and therefore i am biting my nails till things go back to normal...
So... only put in fish you want to leave in your tank for good... keep in mind, fish get big over the months and years...so plan accordingly.. and only put in fish that you are completely happy with..... with me, i want to get rid of my blue green chromis.., they are just too aggressive for me/mytank...
maroonclownfan
Member
You're only a 'mean' if you knew what was going to happen and you did it anyway. Which I doubt you did. Alot of people here did the same thing. No use rehashing the past, we should just try to help those who haven't, avoid the same mistakes.
mCF
mCF
killafins
Active Member
I strongly agree with MCF... when adding a damsel to a cyclying tank... (or molly)... u r placing them in a very harsh environment. I too added damsels and have some of the originals. But If I could take back that choice now I would. Please, go out there and get frozen shrimp or something. It would be better for u and urself.
Just remember that when dealing with fish u r playing with lives too.
Just remember that when dealing with fish u r playing with lives too.
guppy slayer
Member
I used 3 mollies when i first started out but they got sucked into my wet/dry.
So I needed a bigger fish, so I got 2 green chromis & 2 blue damsels which worked out fine till I got fish that out grew them.
So I needed a bigger fish, so I got 2 green chromis & 2 blue damsels which worked out fine till I got fish that out grew them.
jrein40806
Member
I keep reading about not using the poor damsels to cycle with. If people didn't buy them for cycling how many damsels would get sold? They would wind up dying in the pet shop anyway. Another poster said" You took them from the ocean" So what? I wonder how long the average damsel actually survives in the ocean. Their chances of survival are probably a lot higher during a cycle. Just my opinion though
timsedwards
Active Member
Well I believe in some parts of this forum you would game flamed for this, but this is a newbie forum
DO NOT CYCLE WITH A DAMSEL. There is no advantage I can see to it. Its like putting you in a tank of petrol and seeing how long you survive.
Although they are more resillient, it does not mean they do not feel pain and stress.
Please just use a dead shrimp from your supermarket or something.
Tim.
DO NOT CYCLE WITH A DAMSEL. There is no advantage I can see to it. Its like putting you in a tank of petrol and seeing how long you survive.
Although they are more resillient, it does not mean they do not feel pain and stress.
Please just use a dead shrimp from your supermarket or something.
Tim.
E
elan
Guest
i was just joking about being a meanie... by no means did i do it intentially...... although, i dont think its that mean.. we are just talking about fish here... i kill fish when i go fishing all the time.. . its called using live bait. .. but, i think i may have just started a new topic of why i am the meanie on this site...lol
but in all seriousness, using live fish for cycling, IMO, is probably the best method for cycling the tank (for the sake of introducing the right type of ammonia on a continuous basis)...
But, the downside definitely outways the upside of this method.
Ammonia introduction can be achieved using a raw shirmp from your local food store... i havent seen any specifics on how many you should use, but, for argument sake, just add some till you see an ammonia spike (maybe one medium size shrimp per 30 gallons of water, but i really have no idea)... once you find how many shirmp you need, I would continously put in new shrimp thought your cycle, and continue this after your cycle... I really belive you have to continuosly feed the nitrifying bacteria that is using the ammonia to turn into nitrite.... The heavier the load, the more fish you can add at a single time without fear of your bacteria bioload handeling the fish ammonia introduction....
In other words, if you want to put in a dozen fish at a time, you can probably achieve this if you add a dozen shrimp to cycle your tank...(i would remove the shirmp after a week, and put in new shirmp...and if possible, get some type of routine where you dont change all the shirmp at a single time... maybe three shirmp at a time 4 times a week...if you have a dozen).....then, you have your nitrifying bacteria handel the dozen shrimp bioload over a months time........ then, once you are adding new shrimp, and your ammonia and your nitrite are 0, and your nitrate is low, you remove all the shrimp and add all the fish, the same day...
this hopefully will insure that your nitrifying bacteria are built up to a level to handel a heavy bioload....
Keep in mind.. i am strictly speaking out of my ***, i have never tried this, but i really think this would work, and would try this myself if i was starting a new tank.... you also would have to adjust the amount of shrimp based on the amount of rock, sand, water, etc... you dont want to overdo the shrimp thing since i think it would raise your nitrate level very high....
hopefully, some of the more experienced people on this board would comment on this... lets see if my thinking is somewhat right.
. its called using live bait. .. but, i think i may have just started a new topic of why i am the meanie on this site...lol but in all seriousness, using live fish for cycling, IMO, is probably the best method for cycling the tank (for the sake of introducing the right type of ammonia on a continuous basis)...
But, the downside definitely outways the upside of this method.
Ammonia introduction can be achieved using a raw shirmp from your local food store... i havent seen any specifics on how many you should use, but, for argument sake, just add some till you see an ammonia spike (maybe one medium size shrimp per 30 gallons of water, but i really have no idea)... once you find how many shirmp you need, I would continously put in new shrimp thought your cycle, and continue this after your cycle... I really belive you have to continuosly feed the nitrifying bacteria that is using the ammonia to turn into nitrite.... The heavier the load, the more fish you can add at a single time without fear of your bacteria bioload handeling the fish ammonia introduction....
In other words, if you want to put in a dozen fish at a time, you can probably achieve this if you add a dozen shrimp to cycle your tank...(i would remove the shirmp after a week, and put in new shirmp...and if possible, get some type of routine where you dont change all the shirmp at a single time... maybe three shirmp at a time 4 times a week...if you have a dozen).....then, you have your nitrifying bacteria handel the dozen shrimp bioload over a months time........ then, once you are adding new shrimp, and your ammonia and your nitrite are 0, and your nitrate is low, you remove all the shrimp and add all the fish, the same day...
this hopefully will insure that your nitrifying bacteria are built up to a level to handel a heavy bioload....
Keep in mind.. i am strictly speaking out of my ***
, i have never tried this, but i really think this would work, and would try this myself if i was starting a new tank.... you also would have to adjust the amount of shrimp based on the amount of rock, sand, water, etc... you dont want to overdo the shrimp thing since i think it would raise your nitrate level very high....hopefully, some of the more experienced people on this board would comment on this... lets see if my thinking is somewhat right.
backslashdot
New Member
OK... so now I have a shrimp to pitch in the tank. Do I float this guy? Will it sink? Should I tie it between a bobber and weight so he is suspended?
Or... can I just through in some of my long john silvers leftovers and call it a deal?
Or... can I just through in some of my long john silvers leftovers and call it a deal?
broomer5
Active Member
backslashdot
I believe that if you did choose to cycle with damsels, the tank would cycle to the number of surviving fish.
In other words.
You have a 55 gallon tank.
You place 1 damsel in this new tank.
You feed it - it excretes wastes.
Bacteria will begin to grow and consume this amount of waste.
The whole food to ammonia to nitrite to nitrate gig.
When the tankwater levels for ammonia and nitrite read zero - you have cycle the tank for this one fish.
Second scenerio.
You place 2 damsels in this same 55 gallon tank.
Off we go again ... feeding the fish, waste, bacteria bloom, ammonia, nitrite nitrate .... you know the rest.
When the levels dropped to zero - you have cycled the tank for those 2 fish.
Third scenerio.
You place 3 damsels in this same tank.
When finished and reading zero's - you cycled the 55 for the 3 fish.
I beleive bacteria populations will begin to colonize and reproduce in relationship to the concentration of ammonia.
Some call it a light cycle, while others will call it a hard cycle, depending on the amount of ammonia being produced and consumed by the growing mass of bacterial slime.
That's why no matter how you initially cycle a new tank - you must introduce all additional fish slowly, and allow the bacterial populations to "grow" to sufficient numbers to handle the new load.
If not - you may very easily loose more delicate fish.
Think about placing 1 damsel in a brand new 1000 gallon saltwater tank with substrate. Do you think this one fish will produce enough ammonia to cycle this tank ?
All that substrate - will it become totally populated with bacteria.
No way.
It all depends on the size of the tank and the amount of wastes/ammonia/bacteria.
I may way off here, and totally wrong. I have no proof of this at all - just my thoughts.
I've cycled tanks with damsels - I won't do it again.
I prefer live rock, raw shrimp, live sand .... or any combination of these.
Works well and eliminates the entire damsel issue all together.
I believe that if you did choose to cycle with damsels, the tank would cycle to the number of surviving fish.
In other words.
You have a 55 gallon tank.
You place 1 damsel in this new tank.
You feed it - it excretes wastes.
Bacteria will begin to grow and consume this amount of waste.
The whole food to ammonia to nitrite to nitrate gig.
When the tankwater levels for ammonia and nitrite read zero - you have cycle the tank for this one fish.
Second scenerio.
You place 2 damsels in this same 55 gallon tank.
Off we go again ... feeding the fish, waste, bacteria bloom, ammonia, nitrite nitrate .... you know the rest.
When the levels dropped to zero - you have cycled the tank for those 2 fish.
Third scenerio.
You place 3 damsels in this same tank.
When finished and reading zero's - you cycled the 55 for the 3 fish.
I beleive bacteria populations will begin to colonize and reproduce in relationship to the concentration of ammonia.
Some call it a light cycle, while others will call it a hard cycle, depending on the amount of ammonia being produced and consumed by the growing mass of bacterial slime.
That's why no matter how you initially cycle a new tank - you must introduce all additional fish slowly, and allow the bacterial populations to "grow" to sufficient numbers to handle the new load.
If not - you may very easily loose more delicate fish.
Think about placing 1 damsel in a brand new 1000 gallon saltwater tank with substrate. Do you think this one fish will produce enough ammonia to cycle this tank ?
All that substrate - will it become totally populated with bacteria.
No way.
It all depends on the size of the tank and the amount of wastes/ammonia/bacteria.
I may way off here, and totally wrong. I have no proof of this at all - just my thoughts.
I've cycled tanks with damsels - I won't do it again.
I prefer live rock, raw shrimp, live sand .... or any combination of these.
Works well and eliminates the entire damsel issue all together.
jillian ayers
Member
How many shrimp would be needed? Does every tank take only one shrimp to cycle?
squidd
Active Member
How did the shrimp from the grocery store die?
Did he suffer, I mean he's just a feeder shrimp anyway?
Damsels are just feeder fish in the ocean, whats the difference?
Why would I want to look at an empty tank with a dead shrimp rotting away for three months while my tank cycles?
At least with the damsel you get some color and movement
Broomers theory is pretty sound. You can control the cycle and keep it light, building slowly, adding live rock, testing, miny cycle,
add critters one at a time over a period of time.
Just use common sence; i.e. 19 damsels in a fresh 40gal tank- ain't gonna be light or pretty
But one damsel/molly 20lb "cured" LR wait three weeks,test each week, miny cycle, add 20 more lb LR mabe some live sand critter pkg,wait three weeks, test each week, "MAYBE"another smallfish.
Whats your readings? ammonia-(almost 0?)-nitrite-(almost 0?) (I'll bet your starting to see some nitrates by now)
Just keep light, build slow, nobody has to suffer
And then in six months when you put your Lionfish in HE'LL eat the damsel so you don't even have to "worry" about catching him!
Did he suffer, I mean he's just a feeder shrimp anyway?
Damsels are just feeder fish in the ocean, whats the difference?
Why would I want to look at an empty tank with a dead shrimp rotting away for three months while my tank cycles?
At least with the damsel you get some color and movement
Broomers theory is pretty sound. You can control the cycle and keep it light, building slowly, adding live rock, testing, miny cycle,
add critters one at a time over a period of time.
Just use common sence; i.e. 19 damsels in a fresh 40gal tank- ain't gonna be light or pretty
But one damsel/molly 20lb "cured" LR wait three weeks,test each week, miny cycle, add 20 more lb LR mabe some live sand critter pkg,wait three weeks, test each week, "MAYBE"another smallfish.
Whats your readings? ammonia-(almost 0?)-nitrite-(almost 0?) (I'll bet your starting to see some nitrates by now)
Just keep light, build slow, nobody has to suffer
And then in six months when you put your Lionfish in HE'LL eat the damsel so you don't even have to "worry" about catching him!
lionstorm
Member
Jillian Ayers-I just got back from Galveston, nice down there but too windy and it rained while we were there.
I used three damsels for my first fish but my tank was already cycled. They are still there now and they all have delightful personalities.
I can understand why people would be upset about killing damsels or using them to cycle your tank, its cruel. It's like putting a human in a room that is slowly filling with CO2 gas and seeing how long they would make it. Yes they might survive but they still will have gone through a traumatic experience whereas with shrimp and other things that are already killed, they are killed so we can eat them. When your damsel dies you don't eat it, it just goes to waste.
So the shrimps death serves a purpose whereas killing a damsel because you were impatient does not. Just my .02
I used three damsels for my first fish but my tank was already cycled. They are still there now and they all have delightful personalities.
I can understand why people would be upset about killing damsels or using them to cycle your tank, its cruel. It's like putting a human in a room that is slowly filling with CO2 gas and seeing how long they would make it. Yes they might survive but they still will have gone through a traumatic experience whereas with shrimp and other things that are already killed, they are killed so we can eat them. When your damsel dies you don't eat it, it just goes to waste.
So the shrimps death serves a purpose whereas killing a damsel because you were impatient does not. Just my .02
searcher
Member
I just used cured live rock and live sand and some hermit crabs. I never had measurable ammonia or nitrite. Nitrates gradually built up to 10 and then dropped down to 1. The crabs were interesting to watch until I finally bought fish.
I gradually added more crabs and fed them and when algae started to grow I added snails.
I added two clowns a month later. I also added a mushroom rock along with them. My reasoning was that the new rock would add more filtration for the new bio-load. I didn't have measurable amonia or nitrite but I did have an algae bloom.
Anyway, its a method that worked for me and I didn't have to add unwanted fish or a dead shrimp.
I gradually added more crabs and fed them and when algae started to grow I added snails.
I added two clowns a month later. I also added a mushroom rock along with them. My reasoning was that the new rock would add more filtration for the new bio-load. I didn't have measurable amonia or nitrite but I did have an algae bloom.
Anyway, its a method that worked for me and I didn't have to add unwanted fish or a dead shrimp.