How much circulation?

marcb

Member
Hi, and thanks in advance

I am moving up from a 40gal FOWLR set-up to a 250 gallon tank that I am configuring now. I have a Dart pump for the closed loop, rated at 3,600 gph. I will also have 2 overflow returns that I am probably going to run to 2 separate refugiums. These will be given return pums between 500-1000gph.
How much additional circulation do I need? I am thinking of adding Koralias, and looking for some input on size and number for this set-up.
Thanks.
 

maryg

Member
I would set it up first and see from there how your flow is and where your dead spots are.
 

marcb

Member
Originally Posted by MaryG
http:///forum/post/2861669
I would set it up first and see from there how your flow is and where your dead spots are.
Thanks. That is probably great advice, with only one flaw. . . . it involves waiting.
 

marcb

Member
Follow-up as I am lookoing into plumbing.
My bulkheads are all 1'', but I see almost no 1" fittings,returns, etc.. Do I need to plumb everything in 3/4"
thanks.
 

nate0729

Member
i plumbed everything with the same size as my bulkheads, 1". I think 3/4" would cut your flow too much. JMO
 

marcb

Member
Thanks for the help everyone.

BTW, why use PVC to build plumbing routes over vinyl tubing, or vice-versa? Whats the benefit/drawback of each? I have been told PVC is louder, is that all?
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
I don't know exactly what your plan is ,but 1" bulkheads for a Dart is not not going to work out to well for you.The suction side is 2" and if it doesn't get enough unrestricted flow ,its going to be a expensive problem for you. This is assuming that your going to do this of course.
 

marcb

Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2863310
I don't know exactly what your plan is ,but 1" bulkheads for a Dart is not not going to work out to well for you.The suction side is 2" and if it doesn't get enough unrestricted flow ,its going to be a expensive problem for you. This is assuming that your going to do this of course.
Hmmm. The system is second hand, and this is the configuration that it was running with for 3 years from what I understand. Both bulkheads were plumbed into a large intake and the outflow was the same in reverse. I was considering two separate pumps, one for each overflow, do you think that would be a better idea?
Oh, also, what brands of pumps are good, and which should be avoided? Thanks
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member

Originally Posted by MarcB
http:///forum/post/2863331
Hmmm. The system is second hand, and this is the configuration that it was running with for 3 years from what I understand. Both bulkheads were plumbed into a large intake and the outflow was the same in reverse. I was considering two separate pumps, one for each overflow, do you think that would be a better idea?
Oh, also, what brands of pumps are good, and which should be avoided? Thanks
Reeflo
Tips & Troubleshooting
We hope you will find the following suggestions and comments regarding pump installation to be
helpful. We do not claim that any of these suggestions are the only way to accomplish your job,
but in general they will solve many of the commonly found problems and help you prevent many
others.
Please note that ReeFlo pumps are external pumps. Do not submerge!
1. Locate the pump as close to the source as possible. It is best to have your main (longest)
run of pipe on the discharge side of the pump. The pump is designed to push water, not pull it.
2. Always have your inlet pipe diameter equal to, or larger than, the discharge line. This helps
prevent cavitation.

3. Never run a pump dry. This may damage the mechanical seal and impeller. They are
designed to pump fluid, not air. Insure the pump is full of water before you turn it on, and that
it doesn’t out pump the supply.
4. If your pump is producing too much flow, you can reduce the flow by partially closing a
valve on the discharge line. Never restrict the inlet!!!
Surprisingly, this will make the motor work
less and use less electricity!! This “valving back” simply causes the pump to operate further back
on its performance curve.
5. If your pump is not producing enough flow. The easiest step is to widen the line especially on
the intake. As illustrated on the chart the narrowness of the line has great bearing on “friction
loss”....think bar straw vs. regular straw.
6. If more flow is required than a single pump can produce, consider using two or more
pumps in parallel. This will double the flow. If more pressure is required consider using two
pumps in series (one feeding into the other). This will have the effect of doubling the pressure.
We have found that using two pumps instead of one larger pump uses an average of 30% less
electricity.
7. Choose a pump that can give you the required flows at the lowest possible power
consumption. Since pumps often operate continuously, the power consumption (watts - not
amps), and its effect on your monthly utility bill can be very significant.
8. Check to be sure the motor electrical connections are set up to match the supply voltage.
9. Install shut off valves before and after the pump, so you can easily remove it from the line
without having to drain your system. Be sure to use ball valves, as they have low friction
loss characteristics.
10. Use Teflon paste (not tape) for sealing threaded joints.
11. Make sure all your pipe joints are airtight. This is especially important on the suction side.
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Reeflo:
There are two elements that cause pressure requirements in your system; vertical lift and
“FRICTION LOSS”. Simply stated it is the pressure created by trying to squeeze large flows
through a narrow opening (think bar straw). There are two important aspects 1) It matters the
length of the narrow line (1” bar straw vs. 10” bar straw) and 2) Friction loss increases at an
increasing rate when either flow is increased or pipe is narrowed. The narrower the line the more
the pump has to work (think clogged ateries and your heart).
Minimize friction losses by using large diameter pipe. First determine the approximate flow rate
you want, and the total length of your pipe. The Friction Loss chart will allow you determine the
amount of extra “head pressure” will be added to your systemdue to the diameter of your piping.
(The size of the pump’s suction and discharge ports does not indicate your proper pipe size.)
Choose a pipe diameter that keeps your friction loss below about five feet per hundred feet of
pipe. Even if you have a section of small diameter pipe that you can’t change, as with a through
the wall fitting, it is still beneficial to use larger pipe on the majority of the run. It matter how much
wide pipe you use.Friction loss chart- The narrowness of the pipe increases friction loss in a
geometric manner.EXAMPLE: At 2700 gph using 1.5” instead of 1” pipe reduces friction loss from
97.75’ per 100’ to 11.73’ per 100’. A big reduction in “head pressure”
http://www.reeflopumps.com/tipstroubleshooting.html
 

marcb

Member
OK.
So I have 2 x 1" overflows going into the pump via a T. Then I have 2 x 1" going out. The outflow will then be restricted by the loc-line down to 2 x 3/4" lines. Sounds like my outflow is more restricted than my intake, which is what the recommendation you highlighted says.
Am I reading it incorrectly?
Go easy on me, I'm new at this.
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by MarcB
http:///forum/post/2863387
OK.
So I have 2 x 1" overflows going into the pump via a T. Then I have 2 x 1" going out. The outflow will then be resticted by the loc-line down to 2 x 3/4" lines. Sounds like by outflow is more restricted than my intake, which is what the recommendation you highlighted says.
Am I reading it incorrectly?
Go easy on me, I'm new at this.

Ideally what they are saying is you want to use the biggest intake pipe you can to reduce Friction Loss on the suction side and the same on the output side.
My CL Dart for instance has 2---1-1/2" bulkheads coming out of the tank and immediately go into a 2 " Tee and then to the pump.On the discharge side I go from 1-1/2' discharge immediately to 2"pipe and then then to my return manifold where i have enough 3/4' outlets to get the lowest amount of Friction Loss. This way a have the lowest amount of flow loss and my pump works less.
 

marcb

Member
I see.
So maybe using wider plumbing, at least as much as possible, would help?
BTW, pro's and cons on vinyl vs PVC?
Vinyl with a couple of ball valves would seem the simplest to me. I've also been told its quieter, and since the tank is on the wall just outside our bedroom, noise is a factor.
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by MarcB
http:///forum/post/2863433
I see.
So maybe using wider plumbing, at least as much as possible, would help?Yes
BTW, pro's and cons on vinyl vs PVC?
Vinyl with a couple of ball valves would seem the simplest to me. I've also been told its quieter, and since the tank is on the wall just outside our bedroom, noise is a factor.That i don't know,i haven't used any flex for anything yet
.
 
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