How Much LR to Seed Base Rock?

[dotsonar]

I started out with 75Lbs of base rock, and put 35Lbs of LR with it, how much should I use to seed the base rock? I know I still need 50+ Lbs of LR for my tank and I plan to add that in a couple of weeks, then let everything cycle. So if I got 50+ additional Lbs of base rock, how long would it take for the 35Lbs of LR to seed the 125Lbs of base rock?
Also, how long could LR be out of water before it is no good? I know there is a big die off when it hits the air anyway, but it takes a while to get it home. The first batch of LR took 25 hours before it was in the tank, it was wrapped in wet newspaper, but will it still survive? And how do I know if its still good?
Thank you in advance for any help!

 

[monsinour]

I would imagine you are not getting your LR from a LFS with that 25 hr transit time. The wet newspaper should be fine and should harm anything. Continue with base rock to save money and that LR will seed it all eventually. doing water tests is the only way to know how things are in your tank. Put in a source of ammonia, raw shrimp, and wait a few days. When you see ammonia on your tests you can pull the shrimp out or leave it in a few more days depending on the smell. Eventually the bacteria will get onto the base rock and start removing the ammonia and turning it into nitrite and so on.
I know that the LFS near me gets their LR sent to them in boxes wrapped in wet newspaper. They wait a few days before they sell it explaining that they want to ensure that it is all ok.

 

[dotsonar]

I am getting the LR from a LFS (however "local" means 75+mi which happens to be local for me LOL). The 25 hours didn't come from the transit though, but because of problems with some plumbing. Thank you for your input on the seeding, I figure it will take a couple of months to seed the LR?

 

[monsinour]

to seed completely, yea a few months.
Well then, since the LR is coming from a LFS, call ahead and ask them this :
"If I bring a 5 gallon bucket or 2, and I purchase some LR, will you fill the buckets with water so that I can transport the LR home in the buckets with water?"
My LFS did this for me at no charge. Granted I was getting $300 in LR at the time. But taking the rocks home in water is the best option. Heck, if you dont have the buckets, the LFS might be able to supply them.

 

[dotsonar]

Well then, since the LR is coming from a LFS, call ahead and ask them this :
"If I bring a 5 gallon bucket or 2, and I purchase some LR, will you fill the buckets with water so that I can transport the LR home in the buckets with water?"
Good idea, I will definitely try this next time.

 

[flower]

What are you guys calling "seeding"?
The purpose of rock to my understanding is for bacteria to grow on. This bacteria breaks down the ammonia and poops nitrites which poop into nitrates, and if perfectly balanced (seldom achieved) the nitrates break down into harmless gas and out of the tank. (water changes does this for those of us with not perfect balanced systems)
It may take months on months for coraline algae to grow on all the other rock, and it might even take a few months for amphipods and such to move in enough numbers to occupy the territory...unless they live in a refugium the fish pick and eat them up within a month or so anyway.
The good bacteria grows according to the amount of critters in the tank. That's why no matter how long you have had the tank up and going you only add one fish at a time, so the bacteria can balance with the bioload. The LIVE rock already has good bacteria on it, and sometimes some critters alive in and on it, depending on how long it was out of the water.
If a live rock was out of the water there may be some tiny dead critters up in the crevices, so we cure the rock by putting it in buckets to allow all that is dead to fall away and change to ammonia and then to nitrites and then to nitrates and then we rinse and add it to the tank. The live rock has all the good bacteria on it that took it through that cycle.

 

[dotsonar]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/386706/how-much-lr-to-seed-base-rock#post_3398158
What are you guys calling "seeding"?
The purpose of rock to my understanding is for bacteria to grow on. This bacteria breaks down the ammonia and poops nitrites which poop into nitrates, and if perfectly balanced (seldom achieved) the nitrates break down into harmless gas and out of the tank. (water changes does this for those of us with not perfect balanced systems)
It may take months on months for coraline algae to grow on all the other rock, and it might even take a few months for amphipods and such to move in enough numbers to occupy the territory...unless they live in a refugium the fish pick and eat them up within a month or so anyway.
The good bacteria grows according to the amount of critters in the tank. That's why no matter how long you have had the tank up and going you only add one fish at a time, so the bacteria can balance with the bioload. The LIVE rock already has good bacteria on it, and sometimes some critters alive in and on it, depending on how long it was out of the water.
If a live rock was out of the water there may be some tiny dead critters up in the crevices, so we cure the rock by putting it in buckets to allow all that is dead to fall away and change to ammonia and then to nitrites and then to nitrates and then we rinse and add it to the tank. The live rock has all the good bacteria on it that took it through that cycle.
What I mean by "seeding" is the growth of coraline algae and the establishment of other helpful micro organism on the dead rock from the LR. I have no Marine life whatsoever (other then the LR and Live Sand in my aquarium). I will be adding algae to my fuge as well as some mangroves once I feel the LR has seeded the dead rock enough. Then will look at adding my first coral.
I didn't bother to "cure" the LR because I have no fish or coral in my tank, I understand this may make the cycle longer as the ammonia will be greater, but time is a luxury I have and patience as well. Would adding the Algae and Mangroves to my Fuge help the Nitrate level stay down? Or will the ammonia hurt them?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotsonar http:///forum/thread/386706/how-much-lr-to-seed-base-rock#post_3398502
What I mean by "seeding" is the growth of coraline algae and the establishment of other helpful micro organism on the dead rock from the LR. I have no Marine life whatsoever (other then the LR and Live Sand in my aquarium). I will be adding algae to my fuge as well as some mangroves once I feel the LR has seeded the dead rock enough. Then will look at adding my first coral.
I didn't bother to "cure" the LR because I have no fish or coral in my tank, I understand this may make the cycle longer as the ammonia will be greater, but time is a luxury I have and patience as well. Would adding the Algae and Mangroves to my Fuge help the Nitrate level stay down? Or will the ammonia hurt them?
Good coraline growth won't be for some time, you can certainly add your first coral long before then. The good bacteria will grow on the base rock just as it does the live, and at the same time, they will be equal for their purpose. The entire system in the tank must cycle... Actually the more ammonia the faster the cycle. Nothing happens until you have ammonia for the little bacteria families to feed on.
Don't add macroalgae or mangroves until the tank has gone through the first cycle and has stablized. And yes..macroalgae and or mangroves will keep nitrates down, because they feed on it. As you trim away the extra growth you trim away the nitrates removing them from the system.
So add your rock, base and live....and a chunk of raw shrimp in a mesh bag to kick start the system. First you will see an ammonia spike..then remove the shrimp. When the ammonia tests read 0, watch for nitrites, and when the nitrites read 0...then watch the nitrates.....then do a water change...wait a week and retest. No ammonia or nitrites...add your first critter.